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Two NCHSAA amendments to expand classifications, change realignment process fail

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I was hoping they get rid of subdivision in football playoffs.  I get NC is growing with the new schools opening here and there but really miss 90s football where you had to pay dues to get a playoff spot.  Conference champions and second place and every now and then a third place team would qualify for postseason.  Sometimes a third place winning record would be the end of your season but now since subdivision 6-6 5-7 4-8 you're in. 

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For all the handwringing and complaining about the system the reality is that most of the schools are fine with it or they simply dont care. Hard for people that frequent this website to get our arms around but its just very low priority. 

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Either some folks just don't know what they want or they really just don't care.  Thus, what the heck is next???

 

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The schools complain about the alignment continually requesting change.  Reminds me of eight years ago when four options were presented and the reasons against them were absolutely stupid!!!!  The best one:  alignment football and the other sports separately.  They could have separate amounts of classes, different playoff structures, et al.  The NCHSAA felt this was the best option as the sports are so different but the reasons against it were absurb and simple minded!

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I'm glad I only have one more year of this nonsense.  Between the NCHSAA and Guilford County Schools I don't know what to say?  

Hoping my kid has a great Sr. year and then off to college!!!!

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I'm interested to see how the votes turn out when they release the actual results.  We don't know if this is the case but IF the votes failed because of a lack of participation then a change in the process is needed.  If that is the case, the NCHSAA should look at doing a quorum of votes.  Only count the actual votes submitted rather than absentee votes automatically counting as a no.  You would have to set a minimum percentage - normally 2/3.  As long as 2/3 of the schools vote, then count the votes and base the outcome on only the votes that were submitted.  If fewer than 2/3 of the schools voted, then don't count the vote - but automatically counting an absent vote as a "No" is wrong.  If you don't care enough to vote, then you should have no right to B$#%&% and complain if things don't go the way you want them to.

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Not sure but I think the issue with changing the voting is the schools would need to vote it in so it is almost the "chicken or the egg" scenario.

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Besides folks not voting and a absentee vote an automatic NO is absurd, I don't think folks understood that this was vote to just change the verbiage in the by laws from 4 classifications to 5 or 6.  It wasn't going to change it right then.  Amending By laws doesn't mean you are changing it just gives you the ability to change.  Now it stays at 4 with no ability to modify.  Stays at square one.  Ignorance prevails once again.

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23 minutes ago, GSOFootballFan said:

Besides folks not voting and a absentee vote an automatic NO is absurd, I don't think folks understood that this was vote to just change the verbiage in the by laws from 4 classifications to 5 or 6.  It wasn't going to change it right then.  Amending By laws doesn't mean you are changing it just gives you the ability to change.  Now it stays at 4 with no ability to modify.  Stays at square one.  Ignorance prevails once again.

I don't think the NCHSAA did a good job explaining this.  One complaint I have heard from some coaches and AD's is that the voting form goes to the principal and that the athletic department was not very much involved.  Would not surprise me if many of the votes were not returned just due to lack of time, forgot about it, or did not really care.

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1 hour ago, 71K said:

This means Kannapolis is heading back to 4A again.☹️

Why

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1 minute ago, 84k said:

Why

Our current enrollment will land us in 4A in the next realignment.   Hello Charlotte again.

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1 hour ago, 71K said:

Our current enrollment will land us in 4A in the next realignment.   Hello Charlotte again.

Depends on how the NCHSAA structures the "four" classifications.  If they stay with the 20/30/30/20 it will be borderline.  Wake County has new schools opening but the current schools losing students and new schools will be (remain) larger than Wake.  Cabarrus will see some schools drop in enrollment but not sure how that plays out.

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2 hours ago, btango said:

Depends on how the NCHSAA structures the "four" classifications.  If they stay with the 20/30/30/20 it will be borderline.  Wake County has new schools opening but the current schools losing students and new schools will be (remain) larger than Wake.  Cabarrus will see some schools drop in enrollment but not sure how that plays out.

Cox Mill is already near 2,000 but West Cabarrus is opening later this year and will take from some of the other schools notably Cox Mill,NWC and Robinson.  Its gonna really be interesting where the schools in Mecklenburg,Cabarrus and Union counties wind up the next realignment.

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If you go back to last spring at the Annual Board Meeting, Que Tucker made reference that they can already do a 4A/4AA split without the need of approval from the member schools of  changing the by-laws. 
 

So, is that what they are going to do? Will they keep the current football playoff format and then sub-divide the 4A classification in the other sports?

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3 minutes ago, TitanNation79 said:

If you go back to last spring at the Annual Board Meeting, Que Tucker made reference that they can already do a 4A/4AA split without the need of approval from the member schools of  changing the by-laws. 
 

So, is that what they are going to do? Will they keep the current football playoff format and then sub-divide the 4A classification in the other sports?

I posted this in another forum.

When they did the 20/30/30/20 split last time I wanted the opposite (30/20/20/30) and to subdivide all team sports in 1A and 4A. For boys, that would be soccer, football, basketball, and baseball. That would basically be six classifications and place 57 schools in each 1A and 4A football playoff subclass. Small 1A football cutoff would be right at 550 enrollment. It would be less in the other sports due to more participating schools.

At 20% of the schools in 2A and 3A that would make the ADMs differential around 300 separating the largest and the smallest school in 2A and 3A. There would be no subdividing in any sport including football.  If there is 300 total differential I do not think there should subdividing.  I am sure a lot of football coaches would not agree.

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3 hours ago, btango said:

I posted this in another forum.

When they did the 20/30/30/20 split last time I wanted the opposite (30/20/20/30) and to subdivide all team sports in 1A and 4A. For boys, that would be soccer, football, basketball, and baseball. That would basically be six classifications and place 57 schools in each 1A and 4A football playoff subclass. Small 1A football cutoff would be right at 550 enrollment. It would be less in the other sports due to more participating schools.

At 20% of the schools in 2A and 3A that would make the ADMs differential around 300 separating the largest and the smallest school in 2A and 3A. There would be no subdividing in any sport including football.  If there is 300 total differential I do not think there should subdividing.  I am sure a lot of football coaches would not agree.

WE already tried this, schools with less than 400 students can't compete with schools that have 550 students. 

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41 minutes ago, rville20 said:

WE already tried this, schools with less than 400 students can't compete with schools that have 550 students. 

But you whine about schools with less than 200 wanting to do eight man football.  Is that not a bit hypocritical?

 

 

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44 minutes ago, rville20 said:

WE already tried this, schools with less than 400 students can't compete with schools that have 550 students. 

Personally, I think Robbinsville would have won a state title between schools 550 or less ADM and would have been in it to win against East Surry.

 

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21 hours ago, rville20 said:

WE already tried this, schools with less than 400 students can't compete with schools that have 550 students. 

but your not competing against schools with 550 kids in the playoffs are you? You beat Smoky (864 adm), Erwin (1355 adm),  and Enka (1183), in the last two years so you can, in fact, compete against larger schools. All two are at least twice as big as Robbinsville and one is half again as big.

.

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7 hours ago, Paul Graham said:

but your not competing against schools with 550 kids in the playoffs are you? You beat Smoky (864 adm), Erwin (1355 adm),  and Enka (1183), in the last two years so you can, in fact, compete against larger schools. All two are at least twice as big as Robbinsville and one is half again as big.

.

But we shouldn't have to, we have 376 kids. Bottom line is we do what we do and the powers that be don't like it, so they stack the deck against us, that's the way it has always been and we are at the point we don't care. We will always be here!!!!!!!!

 

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4 hours ago, rville20 said:

But we shouldn't have to, we have 376 kids. Bottom line is we do what we do and the powers that be don't like it, so they stack the deck against us, that's the way it has always been and we are at the point we don't care. We will always be here!!!!!!!!

 

Robbinsville did some deck stacking in their days, also.  Play dumb but everyone knows it.  

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It seemed to me, that with the information sent out about travel and such, this was designed to fail from the start.

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Ok, at this point, looks like we are staying 4 classes.

Go 25-25-25-25, should be able to reduce split conferences considerably,  64 teams in each class make playoffs,  and subdivide and just have 8 state champions in everything.   Why not?  More revenue for NCHSAA, teams will be on more level playing field during playoffs.  Seed based on maxpreps adjusted rankings 1-16 in east and 1-16 in west and play.  

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:43 PM, burnstweeter said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D0CJXJ-XVNCXerbgt5XV3pwxLI179UANSJ91dBdCS1g
 

I forget who made these but here are some breakdowns using last years ADMs. Someone was looking for them. I knew I had saw them somewhere. 

I made it and if anyone would like to see some different breakdowns, just let me know and I'll put them up there.

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On 2/1/2020 at 1:26 PM, btango said:

I posted this in another forum.

When they did the 20/30/30/20 split last time I wanted the opposite (30/20/20/30) and to subdivide all team sports in 1A and 4A. For boys, that would be soccer, football, basketball, and baseball. That would basically be six classifications and place 57 schools in each 1A and 4A football playoff subclass. Small 1A football cutoff would be right at 550 enrollment. It would be less in the other sports due to more participating schools.

At 20% of the schools in 2A and 3A that would make the ADMs differential around 300 separating the largest and the smallest school in 2A and 3A. There would be no subdividing in any sport including football.  If there is 300 total differential I do not think there should subdividing.  I am sure a lot of football coaches would not agree.

I added this breakdown to the Google Doc for everyone to see.  The only thing about this breakdown is what happens when they add the non-football schools in?  Or do they do an alignment now with them all in?  

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1 hour ago, cowboys87 said:

I added this breakdown to the Google Doc for everyone to see.  The only thing about this breakdown is what happens when they add the non-football schools in?  Or do they do an alignment now with them all in?  

All things were open for change.  May be some of the alignment items, such as this, may still change.

The issue including all schools is that the number of 1A football teams would shrink.  Not including adds teams to the non football sports.

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3 hours ago, LarryRandolph said:

Ok, at this point, looks like we are staying 4 classes.

Go 25-25-25-25, should be able to reduce split conferences considerably,  64 teams in each class make playoffs,  and subdivide and just have 8 state champions in everything.   Why not?  More revenue for NCHSAA, teams will be on more level playing field during playoffs.  Seed based on maxpreps adjusted rankings 1-16 in east and 1-16 in west and play.  

The difference between schools in 3A and 3A will be very small while 1A and 4A will be much, much greater.
 

The NCHSAA admin would prefer to have no subdividing but there is no option for five and six classes now.

I think having the majority of the schools in 1A and 4A and subdividing all team sports makes the most sense

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3 hours ago, cowboys87 said:

I made it and if anyone would like to see some different breakdowns, just let me know and I'll put them up there.

 

3 hours ago, cowboys87 said:

I added this breakdown to the Google Doc for everyone to see.  The only thing about this breakdown is what happens when they add the non-football schools in?  Or do they do an alignment now with them all in?  

 

1 hour ago, btango said:

The difference between schools in 3A and 3A will be very small while 1A and 4A will be much, much greater.
 

The NCHSAA admin would prefer to have no subdividing but there is no option for five and six classes now.

I think having the majority of the schools in 1A and 4A and subdividing all team sports makes the most sense

Nice work!

The interesting thing about 30-20-20-30 around here would be East Rutherford and Chase dropping to 1A if they used those numbers.

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On 1/30/2020 at 2:45 PM, Ace Newman said:

I was hoping they get rid of subdivision in football playoffs.  I get NC is growing with the new schools opening here and there but really miss 90s football where you had to pay dues to get a playoff spot.  Conference champions and second place and every now and then a third place team would qualify for postseason.  Sometimes a third place winning record would be the end of your season but now since subdivision 6-6 5-7 4-8 you're in. 

Amen to this. 1-10 south caldwell made the playoffs not too long ago, that's how you know the system is broken!

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On 1/31/2020 at 10:51 AM, btango said:

I don't think the NCHSAA did a good job explaining this.  

I wonder sometimes if this is intentional? It would be easy to do this when you really didn't want to change the system. You would be giving the schools that were very vocal about it the chance they wanted but with little chance of a passing vote.

just stick with what we have and reduce the number of teams that qualify for the playoff then use a  12 team bracket and be done with it.

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If that is intentional, then I'm also calling a conspiracy on the abstentions counting as no votes.  In all of the jacked up things about this situation, that is one of the most frustrating things.

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3 hours ago, Paul Graham said:

I wonder sometimes if this is intentional? It would be easy to do this when you really didn't want to change the system. You would be giving the schools that were very vocal about it the chance they wanted but with little chance of a passing vote.

just stick with what we have and reduce the number of teams that qualify for the playoff then use a  12 team bracket and be done with it.

I assure you the NCHSAA admin wanted to make changes and move from the four classificiations.  I have had spoken with four or five or them over the last year.  The issue is the principal and superintendents control all aspects of the schools.  Coaches and ADs, in most cases, have very little say so or control.

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Btango 

What exactly did Robbinsville do to stack the deck. I promise you I will shut down your answer and you WILL NOT be able to back up your claim with facts.

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