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704cougarsdad

Power Echols c/o 21 LB

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I hate inflated hype and " best ever" statements that arent rooted in any sort of fact. That said, with one year left I think he is the best HS defensive player I have ever seen. 

4 minutes ago, WiseOne88 said:

3min. in and all I see is blitzes and run fits ...how does he do in coverage?

They dont ask him to do much in that scheme. They play almost exclusively press man and unlike a lot of defensive schemes they get pressure up the middle versus off the edge with the extra guy ( They also had a great WDE in Sings). He is crazy fast though and has very fluid hips. He can turn and run with anyone.

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I have had the pleasure of seeing him live probably a dozen times now plus all the film. Great instincts and first step is nuts. Very high football IQ and you can see he has been coached well. He times his blitzes very well. Waits for the DL to stunt and then goes like a missle versus getting lost in the wash. The scheme helps him a ton though. You dont see him having to shed blockers much because they rarely get an angle and even if they do they are just to slow. He plays clean all day and when he gets there he comes angry.

My only concern with him is where he plays next level. I know he loves Clemson but Venables inside guys are all 240 + bangers and I just dont know how he holds up if he has to bang with 300lb guys coming at him. They love the long guys off the edge. Doesnt have the length of a Simmons of Micah Parsons type. I think he plays the Tanner Muse spot if that is where he ends up. Not as tall but much faster than Muse.....I could see him coming down in the box out of those hybrid sets and causing all sorts of problems in the run game.

The other thing is just the intangibles. The kids intensity is infectious   and his teammates feed off of him.  He is just one of those Ray Lewis type players that figure out where the ball is and track it with anger. Wants to make every play......That type of stuff is just DNA. Its not  a coaching thing.

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34 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

Not as tall but much faster than Muse....

Echols seems faster, certainly quicker but I think you're selling Muse a little short, Muse is faster than some people realize... Did you watch him run down Dobbins in the open field Saturday?

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13 minutes ago, SMC Observer said:

Echols seems faster, certainly quicker but I think you're selling Muse a little short, Muse is faster than some people realize... Did you watch him run down Dobbins in the open field Saturday?

Coming out of high school Muse may have been faster in a 40 (or straight line running when he could pickup full speed) than Echols is but Tanner did not have the hips or initial burst that Echols has.  Muse had length and overall size on Echols.  I always thought Muse would grow into a linebacker.  Muse was physically advanced in high school from the weight room, speed work, and nutrition.

Echols is quick and explosive.  Every play is played like the final play of his last game.  Height could be a factor on how much size he can carry.  He has the ability to cover.  Do not see that being an issue for him.

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39 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

just

 

1 hour ago, SMC Observer said:

Echols seems faster, certainly quicker but I think you're selling Muse a little short, Muse is faster than some people realize... Did you watch him run down Dobbins in the open field Saturday?

I did see. Helluva an effort play and could have saved the game frankly but he has struggled in coverage at times this year. College football is all about versatility on defense now. Offense is up tempo and spread and you cant use as many sub packages so a guy like Muse is average in coverage but Venables can use him as a nickel LB and it works...

Echols is the perfect hybrid rover in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, SMC Observer said:

Did you watch him run down Dobbins in the open field Saturday?

That was one of the difference maker plays in the game.

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21 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

Helluva an effort play and could have saved the game frankly but he has struggled in coverage at times this year. College football is all about versatility on defense now. Offense is up tempo and spread and you cant use as many sub packages so a guy like Muse is average in coverage but Venables can use him as a nickel LB and it works...

Echols is the perfect hybrid rover in my opinion.

Absolutely!  Friend was an AA at corner in the early 1980's.  Told me he would struggle to play the position now due to the style of the game.  He was more of a run stopper on the sweeps than a cover guy.  Now you are a cover guy.

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12 minutes ago, btango said:

Absolutely!  Friend was an AA at corner in the early 1980's.  Told me he would struggle to play the position now due to the style of the game.  He was more of a run stopper on the sweeps than a cover guy.  Now you are a cover guy.

Yup- Its all about DE's that can drop and cover and still be elite pass rushers like the Chaisson kid at LSU. Isiah Simmons is really the evolution of Brian Urlacher....big enough to run stop but long and athletic enough to turn and play in that deep zone in cover 2. Offenses like LSU use Moss split wide or Edwards Helaire out of the backfield in uptempo without substituting. You cant bring in 2 new DB's in a dime package if the offense doesnt sub out so you have to have hybrid guys who can do it all and tackle in space. Oklahoma is a perfect example of what happens when you dont recruit well on defense and try and matchup against uptempo.....Undersized DB's who are lost in coverage so they have to rush 3 drop 8 and hope a guy like Burrows, Lawernce or Fields makes a mistake. We saw what that looks like.   

Its really why you have 4 or 5 elite teams and everyone else. There are only so many 6'4 245 guys with long wing spans who can run 4.5's and Clemson, Bama, OSU, LSU, Georgia have 90% of them..Then add in QB play.

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1 hour ago, btango said:

I always thought Muse would grow into a linebacker. 

He'll have to play there in the NFL. May end up more of a special teamer at that level but I think there's a chance he could develop at LB.

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2 hours ago, Wrigley said:

I have had the pleasure of seeing him live probably a dozen times now plus all the film. Great instincts and first step is nuts. Very high football IQ and you can see he has been coached well. He times his blitzes very well. Waits for the DL to stunt and then goes like a missle versus getting lost in the wash. The scheme helps him a ton though. You dont see him having to shed blockers much because they rarely get an angle and even if they do they are just to slow. He plays clean all day and when he gets there he comes angry.

My only concern with him is where he plays next level. I know he loves Clemson but Venables inside guys are all 240 + bangers and I just dont know how he holds up if he has to bang with 300lb guys coming at him. They love the long guys off the edge. Doesnt have the length of a Simmons of Micah Parsons type. I think he plays the Tanner Muse spot if that is where he ends up. Not as tall but much faster than Muse.....I could see him coming down in the box out of those hybrid sets and causing all sorts of problems in the run game.

The other thing is just the intangibles. The kids intensity is infectious   and his teammates feed off of him.  He is just one of those Ray Lewis type players that figure out where the ball is and track it with anger. Wants to make every play......That type of stuff is just DNA. Its not  a coaching thing.

He loves Clemson, but they aren’t his current leader. 

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43 minutes ago, coachE42 said:

He loves Clemson, but they aren’t his current leader. 

There always the leader....you found that out the hard way two weeks ago. Clemson doesnt recruit they select. Huge difference. 

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3 hours ago, coachE42 said:

He loves Clemson, but they aren’t his current leader. 

I know the kid...hes not going to tell u who is no. 1, hes gonna stay humble and say all the right things cause his dad taught him well. But when u say UNC he smiles but when u say Clemson not jus his face smiles but his eyes smiles. Clemson pretty much runs the same defense we do at Vance...lots of stunts elaborate blitzes with delays and CB/ safety blitzes at times. He will fit right in along with Simpson. Can u imagine him coming in the middle and Simpson coming on the edge with a stunt...poor ACC.

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54 minutes ago, 704cougarsdad said:

I know the kid...hes not going to tell u who is no. 1, hes gonna stay humble and say all the right things cause his dad taught him well. But when u say UNC he smiles but when u say Clemson not jus his face smiles but his eyes smiles. Clemson pretty much runs the same defense we do at Vance...lots of stunts elaborate blitzes with delays and CB/ safety blitzes at times. He will fit right in along with Simpson. Can u imagine him coming in the middle and Simpson coming on the edge with a stunt...poor ACC.

What if he did say who his No. 1 was though? Should we believe him? Or brush it off? 

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I'm guessing ur a UNC fan coach E. Hey they're kids so he might have changed his mind 4 or 5xs since all this started as long as he get a chance to play at the next level is all that matters to me.

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17 hours ago, Wrigley said:

I have had the pleasure of seeing him live probably a dozen times now plus all the film. Great instincts and first step is nuts. Very high football IQ and you can see he has been coached well. He times his blitzes very well. Waits for the DL to stunt and then goes like a missle versus getting lost in the wash. The scheme helps him a ton though. You dont see him having to shed blockers much because they rarely get an angle and even if they do they are just to slow. He plays clean all day and when he gets there he comes angry.

My only concern with him is where he plays next level. I know he loves Clemson but Venables inside guys are all 240 + bangers and I just dont know how he holds up if he has to bang with 300lb guys coming at him. They love the long guys off the edge. Doesnt have the length of a Simmons of Micah Parsons type. I think he plays the Tanner Muse spot if that is where he ends up. Not as tall but much faster than Muse.....I could see him coming down in the box out of those hybrid sets and causing all sorts of problems in the run game.

The other thing is just the intangibles. The kids intensity is infectious   and his teammates feed off of him.  He is just one of those Ray Lewis type players that figure out where the ball is and track it with anger. Wants to make every play......That type of stuff is just DNA. Its not  a coaching thing.

Tanner Muse is a rocket. Echols would never run with Muse as high schoolers. I agree his more like a high school version of Ray Lewis.

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10 hours ago, coachE42 said:

What if he did say who his No. 1 was though? Should we believe him? Or brush it off? 

Trent with a successful freshman campaign, and calls Echols up and says come play with me. It's a wrap! Carolina Who?   

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2 hours ago, GDG said:

Tanner Muse is a rocket. Echols would never run with Muse as high schoolers. I agree his more like a high school version of Ray Lewis.

40 yards Muse.  10 yards not sure.  5 yards or less Echols.

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1 hour ago, work7 said:

Trent with a successful freshman campaign, and calls Echols up and says come play with me. It's a wrap! Carolina Who?   

With recruiting I expect the unexpected.  Echols recruitment will be fun to watch but the one that I want to see play out is Drake Maye.

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13 minutes ago, btango said:

With recruiting I expect the unexpected.  Echols recruitment will be fun to watch but the one that I want to see play out is Drake Maye.

I could see Drake backing up Sam Howell for 1 year, or he could be a kid who wants to come in, and play immediately. It’ll be interesting to see if he stays with Bama.

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1 hour ago, work7 said:

I could see Drake backing up Sam Howell for 1 year, or he could be a kid who wants to come in, and play immediately. It’ll be interesting to see if he stays with Bama.

Fits what Bama likes to do and he would have the benefit of throwing to multiple NFL guys but its Big Boy football and not everyone is cut out for that. Certainly the sucess that Howell has had with Longo has to look great. Close to home and UNC has always attracted very good wideouts. Would have to think that only gets better over the next 2-3 years

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2 hours ago, btango said:

With recruiting I expect the unexpected.  Echols recruitment will be fun to watch but the one that I want to see play out is Drake Maye.

I have been reading on Volquest that Tennessee is trying hard to get Maye. I think he is their top of the list for a 2021 QB.

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3 minutes ago, Appvol said:

I have been reading on Volquest that Tennessee is trying hard to get Maye. I think he is their top of the list for a 2021 QB.

I like what Pruitt is doing there. The last few hires there just wasnt that good. College football jus isnt the same when Tennessee isnt good.

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16 minutes ago, 704cougarsdad said:

I like what Pruitt is doing there. The last few hires there just wasnt that good. College football jus isnt the same when Tennessee isnt good.

Me to. They need to win the bowl game against Indiana.I was worried the way the season started out. Hopefully Echols will visit Tennessee. 

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Alabama has three elite QBs on the roster for next year.

Mac Jones coming back.  Not flashy but he is a lot like the QBs they had before Hurts and Tua.  Cerebral, accurate, but not a gunslinger that will slice you apart.

Tua's little brother will be in his second year.  Curious to see if he can be the man like his brother did.

Bryce Young early enrollee in January from Mater Dei.  Rated number one QB in the nation.  Smaller physically at may be 5'11" and 180.  His accuracy his impressive and he can run it.  

Where does this leave Maye?  If Mac Jones can become the solid number one guy I could see Maye going there as I would not expect both Young and Taulia Tag to stay.  If one of those two can solidy the number one spot I think Maye going there is questionable.

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3 minutes ago, btango said:

Alabama has three elite QBs on the roster for next year.

Mac Jones coming back.  Not flashy but he is a lot like the QBs they had before Hurts and Tua.  Cerebral, accurate, but not a gunslinger that will slice you apart.

Tua's little brother will be in his second year.  Curious to see if he can be the man like his brother did.

Bryce Young early enrollee in January from Mater Dei.  Rated number one QB in the nation.  Smaller physically at may be 5'11" and 180.  His accuracy his impressive and he can run it.  

Where does this leave Maye?  If Mac Jones can become the solid number one guy I could see Maye going there as I would not expect both Young and Taulia Tag to stay.  If one of those two can solidy the number one spot I think Maye going there is questionable.

I think Maye's talent level is right there with anyone. He is a much different QB than Young.

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1 hour ago, Wrigley said:

I think Maye's talent level is right there with anyone. He is a much different QB than Young.

I agree.

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59 minutes ago, Glenn said:

You all are not factoring in the possibility that Tua may decide to come back.

Tua coming back shouldn’t matter. Maye stills has another year of high school football and Tua will be gone.

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Payton Page seems like a really good young man. Watch this interview with Austin Price of Volquest. It’s really good.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Appvol said:

Tua coming back shouldn’t matter. Maye stills has another year of high school football and Tua will be gone.

Tua deciding to come back would be an incredible roll of the dice. Declare and go make some $$ young fella

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Just now, Wrigley said:

Tua deciding to come back would be an incredible roll of the dice. Declare and go make some $$ young fella

Definitely on that but if he does come back it shouldn’t affect any decision Maye makes on going to Alabama because either way Tua will be gone.

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Just a gut feeling because I dont know the kid but I think this kid is gonna be  Tar Heel. Especially if they really turn the corner next year.

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1 hour ago, Wrigley said:

Tua deciding to come back would be an incredible roll of the dice. Declare and go make some $$ young fella

His injury may be an obstacle in terms of how much money he will command vs the amount he will get when he is healthy.

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2 hours ago, Appvol said:

Tua coming back shouldn’t matter. Maye stills has another year of high school football and Tua will be gone.

I am not talking about Maye. I am talking about Young.

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48 minutes ago, Glenn said:

I am not talking about Maye. I am talking about Young.

If Tua comes back Young probables Red Shirts next year and Jones is the #2. 

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Jones has looked pretty good.  How good is Tua's brother, Taulia, may be the real question.  If Jones is good enough to win the starting job next year (if Tua is gone) then Young may look to bolt.  Jones is more of an AJ McCarron / Greg McElroy guy.  Young would be more like Tua but nowhere near as well put together.  A year in the program will help with that.  Friend was at youth Elite 11 last week and Young was there.  Could not believe  how small he was but said he could spin it.  Great accuracy.  This is going to be interesting.

 

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