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2021 5 classification realignment

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Just throwing this topic out there because it is interesting to me and I assume many others on this board. The NCHSAA is strongly considering going to five classifications starting in 2021 and that creates some interesting conference ideas. Simmons has done a great job of projecting possible conferences for the realignment with split conferences included. One conference that sticks out to me, maybe because it'd involve us is the Catholic conference with some interesting players in it. Large travel times would be the name of the game in it. http://simmonsratings.com/realignment.htm 

 

Thoughts?

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I've always thought it made more sense for South Point to be in a conference with Lincoln County schools than Cleveland and Rutherford County schools. At least as far as travel is concerned.  

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It is definitely an interesting take on the process.  I know travel would be more ACR if this were to come to fruition.  We have been in a conference with McDowell and South Caldwell before.  When you add in that trip to Boone, then that is a different animal all together.

 

 

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Maybe Mooresville needs to go back to the NPC so they can be competitive again. It makes no sense for them to be in the IMeck.

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1 hour ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

I dont mind the 5A but I just dont see why you would take West Charlotte out of the Imeck and Put in East Meck because it dont make no sense n With all due respect to EM - They not good rn at Football n IMECK would be a killer for them 

 

 

He screwed that up.  East Meck would not be in that conference.  He has admitted that was a faux pas on his part.

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Would like to see 2A, 3A, 4A have more schools than 91.  1A and 5A have less than 51.  I thought 46 for 1A and 5A adding three per 2A - 4A.  Think there will be a few new football playing schools on board by then which would bring up the numbers in 2A - 4A. 

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I am very curious to see where Union Pines finally lands, provided there are five classes.  Could be a 4A/5A split with the current Sandhills Athletic Conference schools.  Could be with the Cumberland County teams in a 4A Patriot Athletic Conference.  Could be another 4A league, with Lee County, the Harnett schools and a few of the Johnston County teams.  Heck, it's all a crap shoot!  Who knows what they want and what will work out best.   Would like to see some other models out there regardless of four or five classifications.  I just can't see six classifications happening.

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2 hours ago, 84k said:

Maybe Mooresville needs to go back to the NPC so they can be competitive again. It makes no sense for them to be in the IMeck.

no thanks

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17 minutes ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

Have u heard anything bout this possibly Iredell-Cabarrus conference? I dont like it in my opinion - i mean yes Al brown would be a great gate n all every yr but would Brown really get us ready for 4AA? **If we dont go 5A**** i think if Mooresville goes 5A - The Imeck is the only Option we have 

Yes, they would. If they go 5a they really wouldn't do nothing.

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Mooresville will be right on the cutoff line for 5A whether it is 46 or 50 teams.  They are right there and seem to be growing.  A few more schools in Raleigh and Charlotte may help or it could hurt.  

 

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Way too many variables involved that no one knows the answer to.  Five classes?  How will they be divided up?  Evenly or offset and how?  

Once we know how they are going to break the conferences down it will be much more simple to work on.

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 6:14 PM, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

What has AL brown done? 

They beat a pretty good Davie County team. The same Davie County team that beat Mooresville and just last week beat a power house West Forsyth team.

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57 minutes ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

I will say Davie been up and down n also it taken 2 days for Brown to win n also yall were trailing so will see what yall do later down the line! 

It’s “in”, not “n”. 

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2 minutes ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

Actually N means "and"  And its a shorten version 

On 6/30/2009 at 10:50 PM, Chris Hughes said:

Proper Grammar Required

The forums here at CarolinaPreps.com require members to type with proper grammar at all times.  Slang and abbreviations are not acceptable forms of communication.

Go back and read the forum guidelines. I’m not saying this just to get on you, this is for the betterment of the community here. It’ll make you a better poster in the long run and you’ll be more respected if you  communicate more professionally.  
 

You care a lot about high school sports, and for that I respect and appreciate you, but you’re capable of much more if you’ll communicate more clearly.  

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Would like to see more models of what various realignment scenarios in addition to what Mr. Simmons has put together (five classification model).  Maybe Mr. Simmons can come up with more models in the future reflecting the various scenarios that could happen with the realignment "monster."  👾

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5 hours ago, ramheadbut said:

use the 20/20/20/20/20 model for crying out loud

How about using the Charter&Private/1A/2A/3A/4A model.  If that doesn't do enough to assuage the disparity between large 4A and small 4A, then have 6 classifications...but either way, the charters and privates/parochials need to have their own playoffs. 

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2 hours ago, NWWatchdog said:

How about using the Charter&Private/1A/2A/3A/4A model.  If that doesn't do enough to assuage the disparity between large 4A and small 4A, then have 6 classifications...but either way, the charters and privates/parochials need to have their own playoffs. 

The issue on realignment is it is for all sports.  There is a good competitive balance in most sports with four classes.  
 

There are not enough charters to have their own football playoffs.  I do think they should play up one classification.

 

 

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On 10/25/2019 at 5:44 PM, btango said:

The issue on realignment is it is for all sports.  There is a good competitive balance in most sports with four classes.  
 

There are not enough charters to have their own football playoffs.  I do think they should play up one classification.

 

 

I would respectfully disagree that there's a competitive balance at the 1A level (and it's creeping into the 2A level).  Check out the state champions from last year at the 1A level - between all men and women's sports all but 6 were won by non-traditional schools (charters or private parochials).  If there are not enough charters/privates to play FB then make them bump a classification.  For all other sports they need to have a separate playoff for them.

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On 10/25/2019 at 9:34 AM, ramheadbut said:

use the 20/20/20/20/20 model for crying out loud

Please not 20/20/20/20/20.

That's not going work. I assume you pull for a 2a or 3a or you wouldn't say that.

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1 hour ago, NWWatchdog said:

I would respectfully disagree that there's a competitive balance at the 1A level (and it's creeping into the 2A level).  Check out the state champions from last year at the 1A level - between all men and women's sports all but 6 were won by non-traditional schools (charters or private parochials).  If there are not enough charters/privates to play FB then make them bump a classification.  For all other sports they need to have a separate playoff for them.

If you have read any of my posts regarding realignment you know that I think before they do the realignment they need to figure out how to deal with 1A sports.  Simple realignment is not going to help the issue as many of the charters have smaller enrollments and there are urban magnets, open enrollment schools, and the Parochial school(s).

For a recap, it is my opinion that 1A should be fir “traditional” schools that do not allow students that live outside the geographical school district to participate in sports.  There would be a few exceptions such as a parent teaches there or the student lived in the district through the first semester of their junior school year or the sibling rule.  

A lot of schools would flip out because they consider themselves “traditional” although they would not come close to meeting the above criteria.

The issue is what do you do with the “non traditional” schools?  Separate them fir playoffs with a “non traditional” playoff subdivision?  Move them up a classification which would move schools with 2A numbers down?

A lot of logistics to be worked out on that and I can tell you nothing is happening any time soon.

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On 10/23/2019 at 3:18 PM, 84k said:

Maybe Mooresville needs to go back to the NPC so they can be competitive again. It makes no sense for them to be in the IMeck.

Mooresville is not competitive? Their record may not show it but they have given every team in the I-Meck a run for their money. One more play goes Mooresvilles way during the Vance game, and Mooresville wins. If there was not a bad snap in the Hough game and the momentum changes to a potential scoring drive. Then they are 5-0 in the conference. Mooresville definitely needs to play good ball this week against West Charlotte and then really come out to play against Mallard Creek and former coordinator Robert Hellams. Mooresville gives teams something to worry about and prepare for. 

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Any changes should address Charters and magnets prior to classification. They have made a mockery of the association’s board of directors (who come from public schools). This statement is based on all sports. The absolute biggest issue is basketball with non revenue sports as well.

As privates and charters grow yearly we are becoming a segregated state much like the northeast of the country. The intention is economic based but drives the racial imbalance. 

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I would put all the Gaston County 3A teams together, it’s what they would want anyway. So you’d have South Point, Forestview, North Gaston, Hunter Huss, Stuart Cramer and East Gaston. The Cleveland County schools and RS Central would go with North Lincoln and East Lincoln. 
 

But of this will be moot anyway when the new ADM’s come out.

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On 10/29/2019 at 7:39 AM, CMoney54 said:

Mooresville is not competitive? Their record may not show it but they have given every team in the I-Meck a run for their money. One more play goes Mooresvilles way during the Vance game, and Mooresville wins. If there was not a bad snap in the Hough game and the momentum changes to a potential scoring drive. Then they are 5-0 in the conference. Mooresville definitely needs to play good ball this week against West Charlotte and then really come out to play against Mallard Creek and former coordinator Robert Hellams. Mooresville gives teams something to worry about and prepare for. 

Don't give me all the IF every team can say that 😄. Seriously, I'm just giving my Mooresville buddys a hard time. I know they have be competitive in the IMeck. Mooresville is like Kannapolis when they are in that conference most years you know you are playing for 3rd place.

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Geographically and enrollment wise I would like to see NC push pass the 5 classification threshold, maybe to a 6a. SC is a much smaller state (geographically, number of participating schools and overall enrollment numbers) and the 5a system works well there due to their size (no split conferences and only 1 champion per classification). While I understand geography is a huge issue in NC and a bear to be equitable to all, creating more than 5 classifications (technically there are 8 now for playoffs/championship purposes) would, in theory, help reduce the number of split conferences and create a fairer competitive balance within the state (you would no longer have a school playing in conference with teams with 700+ more students for example). More conferences could also allow for smaller conferences and thus more intriguing out of conference matchups because teams will be willing to and have to take more risks with scheduling or maintain geographically rivalries. So my main question is why stop at 5? 

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1 hour ago, TM73 said:

Geographically and enrollment wise I would like to see NC push pass the 5 classification threshold, maybe to a 6a. SC is a much smaller state (geographically, number of participating schools and overall enrollment numbers) and the 5a system works well there due to their size (no split conferences and only 1 champion per classification). While I understand geography is a huge issue in NC and a bear to be equitable to all, creating more than 5 classifications (technically there are 8 now for playoffs/championship purposes) would, in theory, help reduce the number of split conferences and create a fairer competitive balance within the state (you would no longer have a school playing in conference with teams with 700+ more students for example). More conferences could also allow for smaller conferences and thus more intriguing out of conference matchups because teams will be willing to and have to take more risks with scheduling or maintain geographically rivalries. So my main question is why stop at 5? 

I like equitable to all but there are limitations to all options.  Have to meet a fine line in the middle and that seems very hard to accomplish.

Agree totally SC is a much more simple state to set up due to it geographical size and layout plus the number of schools but they battle, also.  There it is every two years which I think is needed in NC!

More classifications will most likely result in more split conferences or conferences with less teams.  Impossible to have the same amount of teams in conferences with more classes without having split conferences.  

There are not eight playoff "classifications" for any sport other than football.  I am ok with some form of subdividing or more champions in the playoffs but doubling it is too many.  Subdivided playoffs has built dynasties and the schools that are winning the small sub class would be in it to win it in a non subdivided playoff. 

I am hearing that the schools (ie coaches and ADs) are complaining about five classifications and are not supportive of the possibility.  Look back at my posts over the years and you will see a theme of everyone wants change and wants it to be better but when it comes time to make the changes the schools nix it.  

Eight years ago several options were put on the table for the upcoming realignment.  Davis Whitfield, the director at the time, felt that all options should be presented.  My favorite was football to be realigned separately from all other sports.  Six, five, four, and three classes were presented as options to look at.  Offset number of teams per classification were discussed.  Revamping the playoff formats (which I would like to see in football).  One thing that was a common theme, football coaches wanted to keep subdividing and all sports wanted more teams to qualify for the playoffs.

 

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I think the biggest things for improvement are two year reclassifications and separate realignments for football vs. other sports.  Leave the non-football sports alone, and you can then get creative with football.  It's a different beast in terms of travel and competition.

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IF NC goes to 5 classifications, you would see a 5A state champion, 4AA, 4A, 3AA, 3A, 2AA, 2A, and 1A state champion and that would be it.  Still would have 8 state champions like they do now.  

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41 minutes ago, Eagles 1313 said:

IF NC goes to 5 classifications, you would see a 5A state champion, 4AA, 4A, 3AA, 3A, 2AA, 2A, and 1A state champion and that would be it.  Still would have 8 state champions like they do now.  

That is not a definite.  The NCHSAA admin is interested in reducing the number of playoff sub classes.

If the five classes are evenly split I do not expect subdividing unless although 1A and 5A would be sensible.

If the five classes are divided out unevenly (12.5, 25x3, 12.5) I could see the split you describe.

I am not sure we will see five because the schools don’t seem to be behind it.

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All this will do is make it harder for the 1a size schools to compete like it was in the 90's. R'ville would have at least 2 more state ships if they didn't have to beat schools twice their size in the 90's. To be honest the number of students doesn't affect schools in the 3 and 4 A  class like it does the small schools. 

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4 minutes ago, rville20 said:

All this will do is make it harder for the 1a size schools to compete like it was in the 90's. R'ville would have at least 2 more state ships if they didn't have to beat schools twice their size in the 90's. 

What do you think would be the best plan?  (Remember, this is for the state as a whole, not one classification or area.)  At a percentage of schools, a definitive enrollment number, a set number of schools?

Don't want 1A to be what it was pre 1985 when as few as 26 schools in the classification had a football team.

 

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1 minute ago, btango said:

What do you think would be the best plan?  (Remember, this is for the state as a whole, not one classification or area.)  At a percentage of schools, a definitive enrollment number, a set number of schools?

Don't want 1A to be what it was pre 1985 when as few as 26 schools in the classification had a football team.

 

Tenn. has 6 classifications with 1a around 450 I think, that seems to work for them. 

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2 minutes ago, rville20 said:

Tenn. has 6 classifications with 1a around 450 I think, that seems to work for them. 

I like six sub classes for the football playoffs.  Have pushed for that for nearly a decade.

Do not like six classes for non football.

450 cap would probably result in about 34 football playing schools.  That is 9% of the total schools.  The other five sub classes would have 20%. 

With six classes they could look at a breakdown of 10%, 4x20%, 10% of the football playing schools.

Five classes 12.5%, 3x25%, 12.5% of the football playing schools.

I would be more than fine keeping it four classes and in football qualify 192 schools.  List them from largest to smallest.  Largest 32 are D1.  Smallest 32 are D6.  Classification has nothing to do with the Division you are placed.  Example: School A is 3A but their ADM puts them in D4 while School B is 2A but their current ADM places them in D3.  This would alleviate the issue of enrollments increases and decreases during the four year alignment period.  I expect the next realignment to be in two years and not four though which is a change that is much needed.

 

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