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I seen on one of the Charlotte Observers videos with Chris Hughes, Dale Ross, Langston and Coach Sam Greiner and They were talking about How Harding hasn't got any upgrades and all and Someone mention Using Waddell as a Community Football Venue kinda like they do at Memorial Stadium 

So well lets debate on that? Could Charlotte use Waddell as a Alternative Venue for Playoffs Games and Big games during the season?  Waddell is a Big stadium and also It use to be a HS at one point in time. I doubt  Waddell returns to their own HS but I think this could work as Many dont like going to Memorial Stadium. What are your thoughts? 

Also Another Idea is Build One big stadium and Berry/Harding both use it because Harding n Berry is like 1.2 miles apart.

Even Chris said: " When He was in TX coaching , they had a Community Stadium they used and shared with other HS" 

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8 minutes ago, forsythco said:

So I've tried to look up Wedell. What is that? I can't find it on Google Maps. 

 

4 minutes ago, GDG said:

Spelling error.

Sorry bout that - I fixed it .... Gotta love Auto correction on your phone 

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1 minute ago, GDG said:

My neighbors kids went there. He said it was horrible.

I believe it was a Magnet school so they were prob like what Berry is and I think they closed it for a reason but the stadium is still there 

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That is a point. I don’t know the ins and outs of why shutting Waddell down but if the stadium is available that would be good for teams if in need to use. But I don’t know the situation there. 

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Oh wow, Harding and Berry are literally a mile apart. Seems like a complete waste of money to build Berry while keeping Harding open. 

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I had the pleasure of visiting Texas recently, and took in some football stadiums while I was there. He's right... many do share stadiums. One stadium i visited is shared by 3 teams. It rivaled an SEC stadium. Personally, I hate it. It takes away from reach school having its own house. High Point Central and High Point Andrews share a stadium. Granted, it's a niiice venue, but if it's off campus, and especially if it's shared, it a no for me, dawg.

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44 minutes ago, forsythco said:

Oh wow, Harding and Berry are literally a mile apart. Seems like a complete waste of money to build Berry while keeping Harding open. 

Yeah and Berry has gotten upgrades while harding has it and berry isnt even as old as harding 

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5 minutes ago, swe'98 said:

I had the pleasure of visiting Texas recently, and took in some football stadiums while I was there. He's right... many do share stadiums. One stadium i visited is shared by 3 teams. It rivaled an SEC stadium. Personally, I hate it. It takes away from reach school having its own house. High Point Central and High Point Andrews share a stadium. Granted, it's a niiice venue, but if it's off campus, and especially if it's shared, it a no for me, dawg.

Sometimes thats how the dice rolls, Sharing a Stadium might be the only logical thing to do if it make sense. Waddell would be use for BIG game / Playoff games so 

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2 minutes ago, swe'98 said:

I had the pleasure of visiting Texas recently, and took in some football stadiums while I was there. He's right... many do share stadiums. One stadium i visited is shared by 3 teams. It rivaled an SEC stadium. Personally, I hate it. It takes away from reach school having its own house. High Point Central and High Point Andrews share a stadium. Granted, it's a niiice venue, but if it's off campus, and especially if it's shared, it a no for me, dawg.

The nicest one for the last few years (others have been built) was Allen and they are the sole occupant and it is on campus.  I went to their game versus Dutch Fork which was played at the multi tenant stadium in Plano.  Held about 13,000 with an unreal press box and turf.  Top of the line!  It was an "event" with tailgating going on well before the game and a rocking student and fan section.

De LaSalle in northern California is the most successful high school team in recent decades.  Their stadium seats about 1,500 although they can bring in some temp bleachers and take it to 2,000.  John Curtis, a Louisiana powerhouse, seats about 2,500.  

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Waddell the high school was shut as there were too many high schools in that area (debatable), the facilities are still used as a school. It is a K-8 language magnet, which has worked out well for that program. The Waddell middle school has the best football and soccer stadium in the county lol.

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Traz Powell stadium in Miami is used by several schools. They actually have games on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. I know that a couple of years ago 6 high schools were using it as their home stadium.

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My understanding is that the new FUSE Stadium being built in Gastonia will host some high school football games. Also, that stadium at Waddell is huge. Harding has probably the worst football facilities in Charlotte.

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Waddell was closed to appease suburban parents that didn't want their children going to Smith Language Academy on Tyvola road. When there was crowding on the south side of Mecklenburg students were assigned to South Meck , Olympic, and  Waddell. To appease southern CMS and further reduce white flight from CMS they built Ardrey Kell, which then took the whites from Olympic, South and Waddell leaving Waddell as a now low performing school. CMS initially mentioned closing Harding or making it the language school, but hte campus layout and the history of Harding made it tough to close. You have to remember back in the day Harding was a prominent white school in CMS. So there would be no Berry/Harding right beside each other. So they closed Waddell as it was newer facility, and wouldn;t be as much alumni blow back vs. Harding. The one caveat is that Harding had to get rid of its IB program, and full magnet status and go to a neighborhood school. This is why you saw Harding suddenly get so much better in football and other sports. The demographic changed greatly from upper middle to high class blacks to lower income and low performing blacks. This upset some Harding faithful, but CMS pushed it anyway. 

These changes assured CMS that Waddell would be a language academy for youth, closed Waddell as a Highschool, sent low performing blacks away from South Meck, and Ardrey Kell making them predominantly suburban schools, and making Harding the new dumping ground for low performing blacks. Then they sent the high performers to Phillip O Berry, and West Charlotte hoping to build those brands. This is why Harding and Berry are so close. Waddell has a very nice statdium.

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16 minutes ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Waddell was closed to appease suburban parents that didn't want their children going to Smith Language Academy on Tyvola road. When there was crowding on the south side of Mecklenburg students were assigned to South Meck , Olympic, and  Waddell. To appease southern CMS and further reduce white flight from CMS they built Ardrey Kell, which then took the whites from Olympic, South and Waddell leaving Waddell as a now low performing school. CMS initially mentioned closing Harding or making it the language school, but hte campus layout and the history of Harding made it tough to close. You have to remember back in the day Harding was a prominent white school in CMS. So there would be no Berry/Harding right beside each other. So they closed Waddell as it was newer facility, and wouldn;t be as much alumni blow back vs. Harding. The one caveat is that Harding had to get rid of its IB program, and full magnet status and go to a neighborhood school. This is why you saw Harding suddenly get so much better in football and other sports. The demographic changed greatly from upper middle to high class blacks to lower income and low performing blacks. This upset some Harding faithful, but CMS pushed it anyway. 

These changes assured CMS that Waddell would be a language academy for youth, closed Waddell as a Highschool, sent low performing blacks away from South Meck, and Ardrey Kell making them predominantly suburban schools, and making Harding the new dumping ground for low performing blacks. Then they sent the high performers to Phillip O Berry, and West Charlotte hoping to build those brands. This is why Harding and Berry are so close. Waddell has a very nice statdium.

Harding did not improve in football after Waddell closed, at least record wise, they won their state title 6-7 years after Waddell was closed and all that happened. Cannot speak for other sports, but football directly correlated to arrival of Quavarius Crouch and Braheam Murphy coming from I think West Meck. Since then Harding has improved in football, especially this year under Van Smith, he is doing a great job over there!!

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1 hour ago, EGFAN75 said:

My understanding is that the new FUSE Stadium being built in Gastonia will host some high school football games. Also, that stadium at Waddell is huge. Harding has probably the worst football facilities in Charlotte.

No “probably” in it. I’m a Raider grad, and taught at Harding from 2015-2018. I was, and still am, astonished by the poor conditions of that stadium. Stands and field. 

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1 hour ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Waddell was closed to appease suburban parents that didn't want their children going to Smith Language Academy on Tyvola road. When there was crowding on the south side of Mecklenburg students were assigned to South Meck , Olympic, and  Waddell. To appease southern CMS and further reduce white flight from CMS they built Ardrey Kell, which then took the whites from Olympic, South and Waddell leaving Waddell as a now low performing school. CMS initially mentioned closing Harding or making it the language school, but hte campus layout and the history of Harding made it tough to close. You have to remember back in the day Harding was a prominent white school in CMS. So there would be no Berry/Harding right beside each other. So they closed Waddell as it was newer facility, and wouldn;t be as much alumni blow back vs. Harding. The one caveat is that Harding had to get rid of its IB program, and full magnet status and go to a neighborhood school. This is why you saw Harding suddenly get so much better in football and other sports. The demographic changed greatly from upper middle to high class blacks to lower income and low performing blacks. This upset some Harding faithful, but CMS pushed it anyway. 

These changes assured CMS that Waddell would be a language academy for youth, closed Waddell as a Highschool, sent low performing blacks away from South Meck, and Ardrey Kell making them predominantly suburban schools, and making Harding the new dumping ground for low performing blacks. Then they sent the high performers to Phillip O Berry, and West Charlotte hoping to build those brands. This is why Harding and Berry are so close. Waddell has a very nice statdium.

Add-in Hispanics as well. Harding has kids that could literally walk to Waddell in 5 minutes being bussed to Harding. Let’s not get on the fact that there are apartment complexes that are split down the middle where half the kids go to Myers Park and the other half are bussed to Harding. Speaking from experience, Harding has become a place to send poorly-performing, low-income students. 

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2 hours ago, EGFAN75 said:

My understanding is that the new FUSE Stadium being built in Gastonia will host some high school football games. Also, that stadium at Waddell is huge. Harding has probably the worst football facilities in Charlotte.

Where will this be at? and When will it be built/Done? I'm Sure big match ups like Shelby vs Kings Mtn , Burns vs Crest, EG vs NG and such would be played at FUSE stadium in the future possibly 

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8 minutes ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

Where will this be at? and When will it be built/Done? I'm Sure big match ups like Shelby vs Kings Mtn , Burns vs Crest, EG vs NG and such would be played at FUSE stadium in the future possibly 

If you know anything about Gastonia, the stadium is in the area of the old YMCA and the old Sears Building (Franklin Blvd). Ground breaking was a couple weeks back. I believe the stadium will open spring 2021.

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1 hour ago, RaiderDebater said:

No “probably” in it. I’m a Raider grad, and taught at Harding from 2015-2018. I was, and still am, astonished by the poor conditions of that stadium. Stands and field. 

Yep, I haven't been there in several years. The field and stands are dangerous. Olympic and West Meck's visitors stands used to be a close 2nd, but I believe they have been replaced now.

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Raider Debator you hit in on the head. CMS turned a great performing Afro-American school into a dump of low performing children to protect Myers Park, South Meck, and Adrey Kell. 

Catholic, the effects of Harding being changed into a neighborhood school were directly related to the ship in 2017. It takes time to filter out the IB students and bring in the neighborhood students. Harding football was complete garbage before the neighborhood school, and Coach Greiner. Now look at Berry that picked up some of the Harding programs/students. They haven;t been competitive in basketball or football in a while. Coincidence? I think not. Do you think Crouch or Murphy are at Harding as a full IB school? Harding football is decent and respectable now. For almost 20 years it was a joke. From 1990 til now Harding has only had 3 winning seasons. It was Garinger and Harding as teh worse schools. When Harding changed over it went from the highest performing CMS school or a title 9 school in one year. The fights went up, issues went up. But sports got better. 

 

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Blue Devils its a touchy subject going both ways. No one really wants to touch it. You have two areas of flight in CMS that has changed the dynamic of all of the schools, and its left CMS in a touchy situation. Thats why Harding doesn't have the upgrades it needs. It was never planned long range. With a new West Charlotte set to be opened and Berry down the street why would they put a bunch of money in sports upgrades. Think behind closed doors CMS master plan is to close Harding or use it as a non-sports behavioral/tech school and send students to the new West Charlotte and POB. Thats just me talking, but it makes sense for all involved. 

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8 minutes ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Blue Devils its a touchy subject going both ways. No one really wants to touch it. You have two areas of flight in CMS that has changed the dynamic of all of the schools, and its left CMS in a touchy situation. Thats why Harding doesn't have the upgrades it needs. It was never planned long range. With a new West Charlotte set to be opened and Berry down the street why would they put a bunch of money in sports upgrades. Think behind closed doors CMS master plan is to close Harding or use it as a non-sports behavioral/tech school and send students to the new West Charlotte and POB. Thats just me talking, but it makes sense for all involved. 

I was going to say if u look at NFL statistics - 68% of NFL players are Afo-American n only 28% is white. The point ill make with this is - It shouldn't matter what color their skin is and ALL kids have the right to have the best experience at the HS level so they can reach their goal of the NFL or whatever. Idk why CMS protects this school n not that school but Its biased and it just hard and un-fair those kids at Harding and others unless they go to a better school like MC, Vance and all 

I dont have a issue with Myers Park, AK, or anyone but I think Money, Political Agenda, and other things play a FACTOR into why some schools have to fight fight fight for anything they can get but If MP or AK ask - they get it , just like How they moved the VANCE game last yr. 

and I agree Its a touchy subject just like religion n Politics but It something need to be talked about so CHANGE or a SOLUTION can come out of it!

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BlueDevils, you are right. They protect Ardrey Kell, Myers Park, and South Meck now because of white flight to private schools. If they allow a large number of low income blacks into these schools the remaining majority white highschools in Charlotte are gone. CMS is already a majority, minority district. They will do everything in its power to protect Ardrey Kell, MP, Providence and South at this time. To be honest I dont blame them. They have to think survival. The northern and southern areas were talking succession from CMS. If that happened the school system would fold IMHO. The 2nd group of flight thats less talked about is middle class and affluent black flight out of CMS and to a lesser extent to certain CMS schools like Mallard Creek, Olympic, Butler,  Berry, Hopewell, West Meck, Myers Park. Historically these upper class blacks would go to Harding or West Charlotte, but since CMS destroyed those schools to appease busing parents and demographics its left a huge void.

You see symptoms like Harding football stadium, West Charlotte gyms, Garinger, closing Waddell etc etc. Its two main factors and I'll say it. Hidden racism/politics to protect the affluent and their schools while over looking predominantly black schools, and affluent/ middle class blacks not wanting to go to school with lower class blacks who act out, and don't want to learn, and bring violence/fighting  to schools. This causes flight from CMS schools. Who is leaving? The parents with the money, and the smart children, this leaves a disproportionate amount high poverty  low performing schools. Busing was able to mask some of these equity issues.

But with no busing, neighborhood schools, and flight from CMS we have a major problem. Thats why CMS churns out superintendents. The question we need to ask is how do we educate students that dont want to be educated? It starts with families and repairing broken homes. 

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1 hour ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

I would say what i want to say but I'm not go to try and start a race debate , All i will say - ALL KIDS Deserve the same treatment and HS Experience as everyone and It shouldn't matter if your RICH, Poor, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, Muslim, Christian. 

It's really not a debate. Anyone who has been around CMS since the early 90s will tell you that $$ and politics on the southern portion of Meck county have been the power base and where most decisions have been based.

The Harding story while compelling and certainly worth the good fight will in the end matter little . 

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1 hour ago, J-Heat1110 said:

BlueDevils, you are right. They protect Ardrey Kell, Myers Park, and South Meck now because of white flight to private schools. If they allow a large number of low income blacks into these schools the remaining majority white highschools in Charlotte are gone. CMS is already a majority, minority district. They will do everything in its power to protect Ardrey Kell, MP, Providence and South at this time. To be honest I dont blame them. They have to think survival. The northern and southern areas were talking succession from CMS. If that happened the school system would fold IMHO. The 2nd group of flight thats less talked about is middle class and affluent black flight out of CMS and to a lesser extent to certain CMS schools like Mallard Creek, Olympic, Butler,  Berry, Hopewell, West Meck, Myers Park. Historically these upper class blacks would go to Harding or West Charlotte, but since CMS destroyed those schools to appease busing parents and demographics its left a huge void.

You see symptoms like Harding football stadium, West Charlotte gyms, Garinger, closing Waddell etc etc. Its two main factors and I'll say it. Hidden racism/politics to protect the affluent and their schools while over looking predominantly black schools, and affluent/ middle class blacks not wanting to go to school with lower class blacks who act out, and don't want to learn, and bring violence/fighting  to schools. This causes flight from CMS schools. Who is leaving? The parents with the money, and the smart children, this leaves a disproportionate amount high poverty  low performing schools. Busing was able to mask some of these equity issues.

But with no busing, neighborhood schools, and flight from CMS we have a major problem. Thats why CMS churns out superintendents. The question we need to ask is how do we educate students that dont want to be educated? It starts with families and repairing broken homes. 

Take a hard look at the demographics of the private and charter schools north of Harris Blvd into Cabarrus county. You are 100% correct

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4 hours ago, J-Heat1110 said:

since CMS destroyed those schools to appease busing parents and demographics its left a huge void.

CMS has not did any favors to WC and Harding but in fairness they did not determine the busing issue.  The US Federal Court system implemented busing in CMS with the decision in Swann v Charlotte Meck BOE in 1971.  In 1997 the court removed busing in the Capacchione lawsuit which resulted in the Student Assignment Plan aka School Choice Plan through area zones of high schools.  Capacchione filed a lawsuit because his daughter was denied entry two years to a magnet elementary school, which was the nearest school to their home, because the school had to fulfill a racial quota although it was struggling to do so.  

Surprisingly, a lot of African American families did not support busing as they wanted to go to their neighborhood school and this played a part in the change.  For the caucasian students bused there were African Americans ones bused in reverse.  West Charlotte had some teachers and staff along with community members that pushed very hard to return the school to a community based school.  

Harding was targeted as the school for the K-8 but the main issue is the campus has about seven separate buildings and that is not acceptable for elementary students.  From a physical structure and geographical standpoint Waddell was by far the easy selection "if" a high school needed to be selected for this which was something I always questioned.  There were major issues at Waddell and yes they were basically dumped on Harding when it went back to a community based school.  The last years of Harding as a total magnet the academics were suffering there, also.

Berry's location was / is questionable but there was pressure for the school to be in this general area to hopefully attract more minority students.  Berry's curriulcum was tech, engineering, and science based while Harding University was more general college prepatory.  I have often wondered if Berry was really needed and if three or four high schools serving each direction of the county could have offered the same items through a magnet program.

Adrey Kell drew students from South Meck and Providence with students shifting from Olympic to South Meck.  There will be another high school opening in that area and from what I hear it is scheduled for 2023-24 school year.  Curious how large their enrollments will be by 2022-23 school year.

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50 minutes ago, btango said:

CMS has not did any favors to WC and Harding but in fairness they did not determine the busing issue.  The US Federal Court system implemented busing in CMS with the decision in Swann v Charlotte Meck BOE in 1971.  In 1997 the court removed busing in the Capacchione lawsuit which resulted in the Student Assignment Plan aka School Choice Plan through area zones of high schools.  Capacchione filed a lawsuit because his daughter was denied entry two years to a magnet elementary school, which was the nearest school to their home, because the school had to fulfill a racial quota although it was struggling to do so.  

Surprisingly, a lot of African American families did not support busing as they wanted to go to their neighborhood school and this played a part in the change.  For the caucasian students bused there were African Americans ones bused in reverse.  West Charlotte had some teachers and staff along with community members that pushed very hard to return the school to a community based school.  

Harding was targeted as the school for the K-8 but the main issue is the campus has about seven separate buildings and that is not acceptable for elementary students.  From a physical structure and geographical standpoint Waddell was by far the easy selection "if" a high school needed to be selected for this which was something I always questioned.  There were major issues at Waddell and yes they were basically dumped on Harding when it went back to a community based school.  The last years of Harding as a total magnet the academics were suffering there, also.

Berry's location was / is questionable but there was pressure for the school to be in this general area to hopefully attract more minority students.  Berry's curriulcum was tech, engineering, and science based while Harding University was more general college prepatory.  I have often wondered if Berry was really needed and if three or four high schools serving each direction of the county could have offered the same items through a magnet program.

Adrey Kell drew students from South Meck and Providence with students shifting from Olympic to South Meck.  There will be another high school opening in that area and from what I hear it is scheduled for 2023-24 school year.  Curious how large their enrollments will be by 2022-23 school year.

Growth has slowed in South Meck county as it is quickly spilling into Union County. With 485 finally opening on the north side you are beginning to see the explosion up there.

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Btango great points about busing. WC as a community school pulled generally from a different area than they do now. Thats the old bait and switch that was pulled on WC. With those that typically went to WC from the neighborhoods that were closer to Garinger, but got assigned to Butler. West Charlotte and harding then got those assigned to Waddell, Myers Park, and North Meck. Harding wasn;t struggling anywhere close to what happened when they dumped waddell students on them. Waddell academically was a complete mess. 

Think the key to this is bringing back the MSAC program at Smith, and starting an academy at UNCC. They using a CMS school as a tech school or prep school for those that dont want to learn. You have to eliminate the non-learners/fighters in a way thats humane. 

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1 hour ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Think the key to this is bringing back the MSAC program at Smith, and starting an academy at UNCC. They using a CMS school as a tech school or prep school for those that dont want to learn. You have to eliminate the non-learners/fighters in a way thats humane. 

Unfortunately, that will never happen as this will turn into a fight of self interest groups battling over socio economic issues.

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True, but we used to do that quietly in CMS Btango, and folks really didn;t cry about it much as the learning field was close to even. If you wanted to learn you could. You still can now, just more knuckle heads to deal with. 

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Speaking of Waddell High, I saw former football coach Bennie McMurray in Hickory last night umpiring a college softball game. Still in shape and getting things done.

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