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LarryRandolph

My Realignment Proposal

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6 classes-No Subdividing 

417 Total Schools from what I can gather

Split as even as possible.

Based on the 18-19 ADMs, the classes would look something like this.

Class 1A- 74 Schools-32 Team brackets for all sports except football, which would be a 24 team bracket due to the number of 1A schools not fielding football teams.

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

Nantahala 28
N.C. School for the Deaf 39
Ocracoke 52
Mattamuskeet 104
Blue Ridge Early College 107
Cabarrus Charter 116
Highlands 132
Tri-County Early College 138
Columbia 169
Hiwassee Dam 180
Woods Charter 183
Cape Hatteras 185
Clover Garden School 196
Chatham Charter 198
River Mill 199
Winston-Salem Prep 201
Carolina International 207
Andrews 209
The North Carolina Leadership Academy 216
North Edgecombe 220
Bear Grass Charter 226
Vance Charter 231
Oxford Prep 232
Southeast Halifax 233
Eno River Academy 238
South Creek 245
Neuse Charter 254
Sugar Creek Charter School 284
Falls Lake 287
Bradford Prep 296
Christ the King 304
Jones 310
Cornerstone Charter 317
North Stokes 321
North Duplin 322
Cherokee 324
Weldon 326
Langtree Charter 336
Rocky Mount Prep 337
Northwest Halifax 340
Thomas Jefferson 341
Rosman 343
Henderson Collegiate 346
Elkin 352
Washington County 355
Piedmont Community Charter 357
East Wake Academy 359
KIPP Pride 362
Robbinsville 362
Hayesville 370
Bishop McGuinness 375
Lejeune 376
Roxboro Community 381
South Davidson 399
Northside - Pinetown 404
Albemarle 410
Southside 411
Voyager 414
West Columbus 420
Chatham Central 421
East Columbus 422
Alleghany 433
Northampton County 445
Pamlico County 448
South Robeson 450
Gray Stone Day 455
Perquimans 462
Murphy 470
Queens Grant 478
Gates County 482
Union 484
Mitchell 489
Rosewood 492
Union Academy 495

 

 

Class 2A- 76 Schools-32 Team brackets for all sports including football

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

South Stokes 500
Hobbton 501
Lakewood 504
Cherryville 508
Mountain Island Charter 509
West Montgomery 511
Franklin Academy 513
Community School of Davidson 515
East Wilkes 519
Riverside 524
North Rowan 527
East Carteret 528
South Stanly 533
North Moore 535
Starmount 536
Manteo 537
Mount Airy 542
Highland School of Technology 550
Swain County 550
Research Triangle 557
Tarboro 557
Raleigh Charter 563
Avery County 564
Warren County 578
Louisburg 580
East Surry 581
Carver 582
Princeton 582
Holmes 583
East Montgomery 590
Uwharrie Charter 592
Camden County 596
North Stanly 601
Bessemer City 605
Polk County 609
Fairmont 616
Draughn 618
Pender 624
Wallace-Rose Hill 628
East Bladen 637
Kinston 647
Eastern Randolph 648
Pine Lake Prep 650
Ayden - Grifton 653
Lincoln Charter 653
Thomasville 659
Northeastern 662
Mountain Heritage 665
Bertie 675
James Kenan 676
North Wilkes 677
N.C. School of Science & Math 678
West Bladen 688
Whiteville 692
Trinity 696
Spring Creek 705
Reidsville 708
Surry Central 715
Red Springs 717
South Garner High School 718
Walkertown 725
Oak Grove 732
Granville Central 734
Heide Trask 736
Southwest Onslow 736
Providence Grove 740
North Johnston 742
J. F. Webb 743
South Lenoir 746
Greene Central 749
South Columbus 750
West Wilkes 750
West Stanly 757
Bartlett Yancey 762
Farmville Central 764
Hendersonville 766
Pasquotank County 766
Madison 767
Beddingfield 770
Lincolnton 775
West Davidson 780
Chase 783
Goldsboro 784
East Rutherford 786
Midway 788
Brevard 789
Lexington 798
North Pitt 799
Lake Norman Charter 805
Graham 806
Clinton 808
Wheatmore 808
Owen 821
Patton 821
North Surry 826
T. W. Andrews 830
Maiden 832
Randleman 834
South Granville 836
Smoky Mountain 838
SouthWest Edgecombe 838
Forbush 839
West Lincoln 840
Bandys 842
First Flight 846
Hertford County 846
Croatan 852
Newton-Conover 856

Class 3A- 72 Schools-32 Team brackets for all sports including football

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

Jordan-Matthews 860
West Iredell 860
Mount Pleasant 861
Morehead 863
North Lenoir 863
Bunker Hill 866
Central Academy 871
East Davidson 871
East Gaston 872
Carrboro 877
West Stokes 880
East Burke 884
R-S Central 884
Salisbury 884
Shelby 884
Foard 886
Richlands 891
Washington 895
Dixon 896
Bunn 898
East Henderson 901
West Caldwell 912
Anson 919
Wilkes Central 929
Ashe County 931
West Craven 931
Franklin 933
Roanoke Rapids 938
McMichael 943
Burns 944
East Lincoln 950
East Duplin 951
Central Davidson 952
Eastern Wayne 961
Cummings 965
East Rowan 968
South Rowan 972
Tuscola 974
Forest Hills 980
Currituck County 983
North Lincoln 988
Nash Central 990
Pisgah 990
South Point 999
Havelock 1010
Southwestern Randolph 1013
North Forsyth 1014
Cedar Ridge 1018
Atkins 1019
Ledford 1023
St. Pauls 1027
Cramer 1032
Hibriten 1034
West Rowan 1047
White Oak 1047
South Brunswick 1048
Huss 1050
North Gaston 1057
Southern Wayne 1062
North Henderson 1066
Northeast Guilford 1084
Southern Nash 1085
Monroe 1089
Northern Nash 1097
North Iredell 1098
Durham School of the Arts 1107
Swansboro 1113
North Brunswick 1118
Parkwood 1119
Southern Guilford 1120
West Henderson 1121
Rockingham County 1123
Southern Lee 1137

 

Class 4A- 72 Schools-32 Team brackets for all sports including football

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

North Davidson 1144
Fike 1145
Freedom 1146
Forestview 1147
West Carteret 1147
Crest 1150
Person 1150
North Buncombe 1155
St. Stephens 1159
Aycock 1162
Rocky Mount 1162
Northside - Jacksonville 1175
Western Alamance 1176
Franklinton 1177
Kings Mountain 1178
Williams 1183
Westover 1189
Charlotte Catholic 1191
Enka 1191
E.E. Smith 1194
Hunt 1201
Hickory 1205
Concord 1211
Jacksonville 1233
Statesville 1234
Douglas Byrd 1235
Robinson 1243
South Johnston 1250
Terry Sanford 1258
Carson 1259
Triton 1260
Eastern Alamance 1264
Northwest Cabarrus 1272
Ashbrook 1274
Orange 1285
Asheboro 1293
Smithfield-Selma 1296
Southern Durham 1305
East Wake 1316
Western Guilford 1323
Asheville 1332
Erwin 1335
Piedmont 1360
Union Pines 1360
A.C. Reynolds 1372
Western Harnett 1378
Southeast Guilford 1384
Alexander Central 1409
Watauga 1410
West Johnston 1410
Eastern Guilford 1421
West Brunswick 1433
Vance County 1437
Northern Guilford 1445
Northwood 1455
Lee County 1475
Harnett Central 1477
Topsail 1480
Purnell Swett 1482
Sun Valley 1483
Glenn 1484
West Mecklenburg 1484
Dudley 1488
Southern Alamance 1488
New Hanover 1493
East Chapel Hill 1496
Rose 1497
Scotland 1506
Gray's Creek 1507
Corinth Holders 1509
Northern Durham 1515
Parkland 1517
Cape Fear 1527

 

Class 5A- 48 Schools-24 Team brackets for all sports including football 

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

Cardinal Gibbons 1531
West Charlotte 1531
Weddington 1535
Chapel Hill 1541
Ragsdale 1548
South Central 1550
Mount Tabor 1555
Roberson 1560
High Point Central 1565
Seventy-First 1568
South Iredell 1575
Ben L. Smith 1578
Brown 1596
Central Cabarrus 1622
Knightdale 1622
South Caldwell 1649
New Bern 1664
Conley 1665
Rocky River 1671
Pine Forest 1692
Hickory Ridge 1696
Harding University 1703
Berry 1715
Southwest Guilford 1719
Porter Ridge 1720
South View 1741
Cleveland 1743
Riverside-Durham 1744
McDowell 1751
Overhills 1754
R.J. Reynolds 1755
Marvin Ridge 1756
Davie 1760
East Forsyth 1784
Grimsley 1793
Hillside 1814
Cuthbertson 1820
Southeast Raleigh 1828
Hopewell 1859
Cox Mill 1860
Sanderson 1881
Mooresville 1889
Heritage 1891
Lumberton 1893
Clayton 1897
Jordan 1929
Ashley 1938
Page 1942
Lake Norman 1951

 

Class 6A- 40 Schools-24 Team brackets for all sports including football  *All 6A schools have 2,000+ ADM, there are 39 on this list, but the new Green Level high school in Raleigh would be #40 in the 6A class.

*Regular Season Champs season with tier of 1's in maxpreps order, then everyone else based on maxpreps. (conf. tournament champs get auto bids and could knock out the last few teams in)

Britt, Jack 2000
Middle Creek 2049
Reagan 2075
Providence 2082
Apex 2087
Hoggard 2102
Wakefield 2107
Pinecrest 2117
Holly Springs 2118
East Mecklenburg 2138
Richmond 2159
Laney 2166
Butler 2179
Rolesville 2224
Fuquay - Varina 2245
Vance 2255
Garinger 2273
Northwest Guilford 2276
Cary 2278
Wake Forest 2285
Hoke County 2298
Athens Drive 2313
North Mecklenburg 2338
Millbrook 2346
Independence 2357
Garner 2372
West Forsyth 2413
Apex Friendship 2501
Leesville Road 2551
Mallard Creek 2594
Broughton 2595
Hough 2669
Enloe 2734
Green Hope 2765
Olympic 2767
Panther Creek 2864
South Mecklenburg 3215
Ardrey Kell 3406
Myers Park 3513

 

Next, I will work on conferences with this breakdown which could take a while.  I would imagine there would have to be right many split conference under this proposal but wouldn't necessarily create a huge problem due to the Split conference application the NCHSAA already has. 

 

 

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I am still thinking the NCHSAA would go with five conferences.  I am not sure what the split would be.   12.5-25-25-25-12.5 or what, and this is for football only (drop in the non-football schools wherever they belong)?  I think it it is interesting to see various scenarios presented.  Would like to see how your conferences turn out.  You can combine East Montgomery and West Montgomery's #s and call Montgomery Central at 1101, which puts them in 3A in the scenario you displayed.  South Garner just recently opened and will be much larger than the 718 students you have listed.

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Ok, thanks. I'll be out of town for a few days, but while I'm gone, I plan to work on the conferences and I'll fix the two items you put in while in the hotel in the evenings and see what it looks like. 

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It is most likely going to remain four classes and go back to 25% for all classes.  Schools don’t like change but they will complain about that just like they complain about the current offset percentages.

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Larry, good effort.  

I want something figured out with 1A schools, charters and open district “traditional” schools in non football sports.

I prefer five with a sixth splitting the 1A schools

Main goal is the largest and smallest schools need to be split out in their own classification.

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17 hours ago, btango said:

It is most likely going to remain four classes and go back to 25% for all classes.  Schools don’t like change but they will complain about that just like they complain about the current offset percentages.

It wouldn't surprise me if it stays at four classifications.  I just like to see the different scenarios out there.  Larry Randolph put in a lot of effort in this undertaking.  I would like to see other ideas from other folks.

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2 minutes ago, RD28327 said:

I just like to see the different scenarios out there.  Larry Randolph put in a lot of effort in this undertaking.  I would like to see other ideas from other folks.

Absolutely!

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23 hours ago, Panther2018 said:

i wonder how the conferences would work out

Still working on it. It's a massive undertaking give the geography of this 6 class proposal. 

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It’s going to be five or four.  They are not looking at anything else.

I think the future will hold others changes with some taking a lot of politicing by the schools.  1A issues with traditional and non traditional.  Overhaul of Football playoffs an all playoffs.  Length of seasons and overlap.  Two year realignments instead of four.  

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On 7/22/2019 at 1:04 AM, btango said:

It’s going to be five or four.  They are not looking at anything else.

I think the future will hold others changes with some taking a lot of politicing by the schools.  1A issues with traditional and non traditional.  Overhaul of Football playoffs an all playoffs.  Length of seasons and overlap.  Two year realignments instead of four.  

What do you see as the most likely scenario if they do something with tradition/non traditional at 1A level should they even decide to take action?

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I do not see anything happening in the near future.  What I would like to see in 1A is charters, magnets, Parochials, and “traditional” schools that allow students that live outside the district boundary to play sports be separate from schools that have a strict district.  There would be FEW exceptions such as parent teaches at the school, the student lived in the district through first semester junior school year, but it would be limited and very specific.  Some schools would change their eligibility rules.  

What to do with the schools would be the big question.  Subdivide 1A, move schools to 2A, which would move schools to 3A, 4A, and 5A.  Tough decisions!

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5 hours ago, btango said:

I do not see anything happening in the near future.  What I would like to see in 1A is charters, magnets, Parochials, and “traditional” schools that allow students that live outside the district boundary to play sports be separate from schools that have a strict district.  There would be FEW exceptions such as parent teaches at the school, the student lived in the district through first semester junior school year, but it would be limited and very specific.  Some schools would change their eligibility rules.  

What to do with the schools would be the big question.  Subdivide 1A, move schools to 2A, which would move schools to 3A, 4A, and 5A.  Tough decisions!

Thanks for the input, what I am hearing is most likely is 25-25-25-25 and subdivided for football playoffs. I was also told the NC Baseball Coaches Association presented two playoffs proposals and both were denied by NCHSAA.  So clearly, baseball coaches want another baseball playoffs format, but NCHSAA doesn't. 

 

I'm almost wondering what would happen if traditional 1A schools dropped out of NCHSAA and started  something new. It would just have to be a coordinated effort. 

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I think baseball had two propels.

1.  One round less but three games series.  I love the concept but there is great concern about scheduling.  This has been looked at before using historical data to include weather reports.  The thought was Monday, Wednesday, Friday games.  I prefer Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday with the next three available for rain outs.   Issue is if three days of bad rain and game three is pushed back into the next week leaving a team that wins in two games sitting for a week.  There was also the thought that one side of the state or one bracket gets drug out for an extended period while the other region finishes on schedule.

2.  Think baseball also may have requested subdivided playoffs.  One less round works without dropping teams by subdividing.

My thought is three round series for all rounds do not work logistically with the schedule.  The NCHSAA does not like subdividing especially when a sport is very competitive without it.  

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5 hours ago, LarryRandolph said:

Thanks for the input, what I am hearing is most likely is 25-25-25-25 and subdivided for football playoffs. 

The NCHSAA admin likes five classifications and I think part of the reason is they want to get away from subdividing.  The crowds at football have been terrible and using three facilities brings in cost and logistical issues.  By going to five classes at 12.5/25x3/12.5 it tightens the ADMs much better for big and small schools.  At 25% 2A-4A are back to the traditional model.  I support this option but it does not answer the non traditional school issue in 1A.

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If you go 6 classifications then there will have to be a good number of split class conferences. Nice thing about 5 is that it would really cluster most of the Wake and Meck schools with everyone else kinda staying put. For fun I think this would be the conference for Crest in this particular 4A without splits:

Crest, Freedom, Forestview, Kings Mountain, Ashbrook, St. Stephens and Hickory. Bit of hodge podge across 4 counties. 

Catholics potential conference would be interesting as well: 

Catholic, Concord, Statesville, Carson, Northwest Cabarrus, PIedmont, Sun Valley and West Meck. 

 

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Larry Randolph. Looks good to me on the surface.  I will be very interested in seeing your conference makeups. Thanks for the information and the amount of time you put into doing this. Very interesting. Larry, I am thoroughly convinced that the NCHSAA will never look into anything that people like yourself propose. They do not seem interested in putting any time into looking at new ideas. I hope they go back to the 25% x 4 because I hate this 12.5 x 2 crap.

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5 hours ago, Glenn said:

Larry Randolph. Looks good to me on the surface.  I will be very interested in seeing your conference makeups. Thanks for the information and the amount of time you put into doing this. Very interesting. Larry, I am thoroughly convinced that the NCHSAA will never look into anything that people like yourself propose. They do not seem interested in putting any time into looking at new ideas. I hope they go back to the 25% x 4 because I hate this 12.5 x 2 crap.

One of the biggest complaint about classifications has been the extreme variance from the smallest to largest schools in 1A and 4A.   That is how this "new idea" was implemented.  The NCHSAA put several options on the table the realignment before the last one but the schools could not come up with an agreement on one.  Basically every conceivable sensible option was presented but none got any traction.

If your school had just enough students to be in the 4A classification under the 25% x 4 setup you would really hate that for your sports program overall.  I totally supported some type of variance to split out the 1A and 4A whether having those have the larger amount of schools and those two classes subdivide all sports while 2A and 3A having the less amount but not as low as 12.5%.  Issue there is most sports are very competitive and I would not want to hurt the competitiveness with subdividing.

I think you are going to see a two year realignment implemented next time.  Schools, surprisingly, have been against much more than I would expect but I think it is the best option.  As the schools complain about two year alignment period they also complain that the change in enrollments during the four year causes too much variance.  Either way you do it, people will not like it.

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If your school had just enough students to be in the 4A classification under the 25% x 4 setup you would really hate that for your sports program overall. 

This occurs in all classifications when you are at the bottom of the list. It hurts even worse when you see schools larger than you playing in a lower classification.

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15 hours ago, Glenn said:

If your school had just enough students to be in the 4A classification under the 25% x 4 setup you would really hate that for your sports program overall. 

This occurs in all classifications when you are at the bottom of the list. It hurts even worse when you see schools larger than you playing in a lower classification.

Agreed but the difference in 1A and 4A from top to bottom is huge.  1A percentage wise.  When you have 300 students the difference between a school with 600 plus is a very large difference.  In 4A the 1,500 schools are in with a large amount of schools that have 2,200 and up to over 3,000.

The two year alignment would help stop the large fluctuations in enrollment that keeps "schools" in their proper classification numbers wise.  As I wrote, the people that complain often resist change.  The schools have surprisingly not been onboard with two year realignment but I think it is going to be tested.  

 

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But with subdividing the 1,500 school is not in the playoff with the 2,500 - 3,000 schools. Two years ago there were 3 teams in the East who had 500-600 more students than we had which is the same problem. The 30% system created this difference. So, how is this different? When I was in VA we used the two year system and it worked great. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Once the people who do not like the idea see it in use they will change their opinion. I have not encountered many people who are opposed to it.

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I would be good with a 2 year realignment process. Or even perhaps split the difference and go every three years. Lock conferences for 3 years.  And no new NCHSAA members between the realignments so conferences can stay locked. 

 

 

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this is from simmonsratings.com

 

 

Conference #4

   

Hoke County(5A)

2298

 

Richmond Senior(5A)

2159

 

Pinecrest(5A)

2117

 

Lumberton(5A)

2043

 

Britt, Jack(5A)

2000

 

Swett, Purnell(4A)

1632

 

Scotland(4A)

1506

 

Union Pines(4A)

1360

 

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24 in 1a playoffs wont happen.

That wouldnt work. It would have to be 32.

Correct because the numbers between 16 and 32 when divided end up with a odd number.

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On 8/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, Glenn said:

But with subdividing the 1,500 school is not in the playoff with the 2,500 - 3,000 schools. Two years ago there were 3 teams in the East who had 500-600 more students than we had which is the same problem. The 30% system created this difference. So, how is this different? When I was in VA we used the two year system and it worked great. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Once the people who do not like the idea see it in use they will change their opinion. I have not encountered many people who are opposed to it.

Only one sport is subdivided.

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On 8/14/2019 at 10:00 AM, LarryRandolph said:

I would be good with a 2 year realignment process. Or even perhaps split the difference and go every three years. Lock conferences for 3 years.  And no new NCHSAA members between the realignments so conferences can stay locked. 

 

 

The problem with three year alignment periods is the game contracts.  School want to contract to do a home and away which would not be possible on a three year rotation.

I can assure you that the "no new members" would become a Raleigh item and not an NCHSAA one.  The Legislature has changed conferences before without the NCHSAA involvement.  You would be penalizing a student athlete that was redistricted and had no choice where he was going to school.  That is not going to happen.

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40 minutes ago, Superkase said:

Why would it have to be 32? They do two 24-team brackets now.  You just give the top 8 teams a 1st round bye.

 

2 hours ago, Glenn said:

24 in 1a playoffs wont happen.

That wouldnt work. It would have to be 32.

Correct because the numbers between 16 and 32 when divided end up with a odd number.

Where did the number of playoff qualifiers come up in the conversation?  I missed it.  The classifications would be completed with football playing schools only and non football playing schools added in after the classifications are completed.  That is how it has been done for several alignments.  If not over half 1A would not play football.

Personally I think four is good.  Subdivide football to six divisions for playoffs with ADM. not classification, determing where you are placed.  That alleviates the school enrollment bounces people complain about.  I  have posted it numerous times and it makes sense but one high school AD told me it was too complicated.  You would not no who you were going to play in the playoffs until you were put in your slot was the reasoning.  

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