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I had this topic on my mind and was just seeing what others opinion  was  on this. I remember years back that you didn’t see as many players  that went over 200 lbs. Now it’s common to see players over 300 lbs on some teams. 250-330 especially. I understand more weight lifting I’m sure. Food change perhaps. Could it be players had to work on farms more and kept the weight down. Any thoughts?

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Not many players at the urban schools were working on farms.  Think it is more s change in American society.  We are obese.

More availability to food for many.  Meat and other items seem to have more additives.  

Nutrition is much more advanced with info more readily available.  

Supplement industry is more advanced and the products readily available.  

Weight training / strength and conditioning programs are much more advanced and a significant part of the football (and other athletic) programs.

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These are my opinions.

First, It's the age of social media for one. Kids don't play and associate with other kids the way they did 20 years ago. It use to be common to see kids play pick up games of baseball and football all the way up to high school age. You rarely see kids play basketball anymore on back lots and empty streets. This use to be how kids socialized back in the day.These days they simply are not as active. 

Secondly, it's my opinion that if kids are looking to be recruited they have to fit into a certain size and speed at a certain position that they feel coaches are looking for. For example, if a kid isn't at least 6'2  215lbs and run at a minimum of 4.8 a D2 coach at the college level doesnt give a second look at a kid at a position like defensive end. So kids pursuing this work hard to pursue this size and speed with parents and coaches help of course.

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All these are good Points. I remember as a kid we stay out all day and sometimes it would be dark when coming in especially in the summer time. It was either backyard football, basketball or sometimes baseball. Winter time when a good snow would come we were out all day sledding. I was skinny as rail but was in good shape. Not anymore. Lol 

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Lol. We were not allowed to come inside till it was dark out. Not only that, as a kid, I had to push my lawnmower on my parents 1 acre. Times are different.

I have noticed a trend I am seeing more and more for kids who want to be recruited is that it has become a year round undertaking. It just doesnt start with summer workouts with your high school coach. Alot of these kids are in year round programs working on core strength, speed drills, and weight lifting that go beyond the high school coaches requirements. If it hasn't come to you're favorite high school yet its coming. Some even have personal trainers that prepare kids for these college football camps much like the NFL combine. I feel this ties in with btango's points on the previous comment. 

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They are bigger because of all the steroids you find in the foods they eat especially the meats, poultry and dairy products. Every team I have coached since I started coaching in 1967 was involved in a weight lifting, speed and agility program. They ate well. Perhaps better than they do today. Even at that they were not as big and athletic as they are today. Most people give these personal trainers more credit than they deserve. I say this because these HS coaches do a great job in this area and do not get the credit they deserve.

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Additives to meats and box products. Snacks were not in our house when growing up. Unbelievable amount of eating out. And then their is the chemicals bought in stores to make one bigger. Kids are getting steroids even at 15 years old from the streets. 

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On 6/26/2019 at 4:20 PM, Glenn said:

They are bigger because of all the steroids you find in the foods they eat especially the meats, poultry and dairy products. Every team I have coached since I started coaching in 1967 was involved in a weight lifting, speed and agility program. They ate well. Perhaps better than they do today. Even at that they were not as big and athletic as they are today. Most people give these personal trainers more credit than they deserve. I say this because these HS coaches do a great job in this area and do not get the credit they deserve.

I feel high school coaches do a great job for the most part. They have been creative in getting around boundaries set by the association as far as workouts go. Not sure if the restrictions on summer workouts was many years ago as what it is today. For example the football coach getting players involved in track and field and coaching that as well. Very time consuming and great dedication by area coaches for this. But,I think where the difference is here with personal trainers is they work specifically on the drills these kids see in college camps. There is alot of technique and specific training to do a 40 time, broad jump, three cone drill, and 5-10-5 shuttle. Let's be honest, if these times didn't matter college coaches wouldnt waste time dissecting these numbers. All college coaches do. High school coaches have the insight to know who there athletes are with pads on and many have a good idea what a kid can do. They simply don't spend time on how to do alot of these drills correctly. You can turn a 5.1 -40 yard dash to a 4.8 with training and the right technique. High school coaches don't necessarily need to spend alot of time on this and they shouldn't, but at a college combine/camp it could mean the difference in a walk on to a scholarship. 

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But,I think where the difference is here with personal trainers is they work specifically on the drills these kids see in college camps.

Most of the HS coaches I know do this. There are coaching clinics with the college strength coaches involved in the process. So, the HS coaches are exposed to everything these guys do in the areas of strength development, speed and quickness development. I have a workshop manual that lists the entire program that he used (he is now retired) that outlines everything he did in those areas, so what these guys do is not a secret. The information is out there and they are eager to share it. One of our assistant coaches is a personal trainer (he does not teach at EG. he owns a gym and has clients) so we are fortunate in that area.

They simply don't spend time on how to do alot of these drills correctly. You can turn a 5.1 -40 yard dash to a 4.8 with training and the right technique.

I am sure you are correct in many high schools, but in all the schools I have been involved with this has not been the case. I know because in many of those situations I have been the WL coach and taught the WL classes. With 90 min. block classes you have enough time during the week to get everything done. I have been fortunate that in most of those schools we were able to get the vast majority of our FB players in those classes.

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In 1955 the Little Wonders had three players over 200 pounds with the largest being 275 pounds. Fast forward ten years later to 1965 the Little Wonders had four players over 200 pounds with the largest being 240 pounds. Fast forward ten years later to 1975 the Little Wonders had four players over 200 pounds with the largest being 240 pounds. Fast forward ten years later to 1985 they had eight players over 200 pounds with the largest being 244 pounds. Fast forward ten years later to 1995 they had twelve players over 200 pounds with the largest being 295. Fast forward ten years later to 2005 they had twenty players over 200 pounds with the largest being 320 pounds. Fast forward ten years later to 2015 they had seventeen players over 200 pounds with the largest being 290 pounds.

You also have parents today who see $$$$ tickets in their kids and tell them they're only way to a better life is through sports, so they encourage them to beef up to these outrageous weights. Then when they fail to become anything in sports after high school, they fall into a life in the streets. Overweight, strong as hell, and hostile!! Parents kick them out because they have no use for them anymore. Been there, seen it first hand. There are several former Wonders with promising futures I could tell you of right now (But I won't) who were just like that in high school, who are now on the "Use Caution When Dealing with" status!! Sad, but true, and it happens all over!!

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I may have my numbers off but the 1987 state title game between Harding and Garner had ten or twelve players total on the two rosters over 200 lbs.  Garner's O line had a 190 pound starter.  I think the largest was 240 with may be one other player weighing over 210.  Average of the five linemen was 200 pounds.  Most 4A schools have a few dozen over 200 pounds usually with some 300 pounders.  We see 220 to 240 linebackers today.  Hardley any 200 pound linebackers in forty years ago.

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On 6/26/2019 at 4:20 PM, Glenn said:

They are bigger because of all the steroids you find in the foods they eat especially the meats, poultry and dairy products. Every team I have coached since I started coaching in 1967 was involved in a weight lifting, speed and agility program. They ate well. Perhaps better than they do today. Even at that they were not as big and athletic as they are today. Most people give these personal trainers more credit than they deserve. I say this because these HS coaches do a great job in this area and do not get the credit they deserve.

Steroids aren't used in pork or poultry production (it's illegal and also not really productive).  They've been used in beef since the 50s.  Study after study has shown that use of steroids in meat and dairy production does not increase the amount of steroids in the final product.  I mean, nobody has claimed a hamburger made them fail a drug test. 

I'm sure there have been some weight lifting programs for HS football for a long time, but I'd hazard a guess that commitment to these programs by coaching staffs and student athletes have dramatically increased over the years.  For my anecdote, I played in the late 90s and our weightlifting program was relatively new.  I think we were the first group that worked out in the morning and during school.  Now some kids are starting on light lifting in middle school.

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On 6/26/2019 at 4:20 PM, Glenn said:

They are bigger because of all the steroids you find in the foods they eat especially the meats, poultry and dairy products. Every team I have coached since I started coaching in 1967 was involved in a weight lifting, speed and agility program. They ate well. Perhaps better than they do today. Even at that they were not as big and athletic as they are today. Most people give these personal trainers more credit than they deserve. I say this because these HS coaches do a great job in this area and do not get the credit they deserve.

Unless you are a certified strength coach you should not be teaching weight lifting. Period. Good on coaches for picking up the slack, but I don't want a non certified strength coach teaching me how to lift. The biggest change is the strength and conditioning field and it's advances that can with a proper diet put muscle on quickly without any of the steroids like baseball saw in the 90s. Those techniques and such were not available until probably the last 15-20 years. 

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13 hours ago, Glenn said:

But,I think where the difference is here with personal trainers is they work specifically on the drills these kids see in college camps.

Most of the HS coaches I know do this. There are coaching clinics with the college strength coaches involved in the process. So, the HS coaches are exposed to everything these guys do in the areas of strength development, speed and quickness development. I have a workshop manual that lists the entire program that he used (he is now retired) that outlines everything he did in those areas, so what these guys do is not a secret. The information is out there and they are eager to share it. One of our assistant coaches is a personal trainer (he does not teach at EG. he owns a gym and has clients) so we are fortunate in that area.

They simply don't spend time on how to do alot of these drills correctly. You can turn a 5.1 -40 yard dash to a 4.8 with training and the right technique.

I am sure you are correct in many high schools, but in all the schools I have been involved with this has not been the case. I know because in many of those situations I have been the WL coach and taught the WL classes. With 90 min. block classes you have enough time during the week to get everything done. I have been fortunate that in most of those schools we were able to get the vast majority of our FB players in those classes.

Being exposed to and being certified to teach it are two very different things. I hang out with engineers all the time and am exposed to their line of work, that doesn't mean I can go ahead and begin teaching it. 

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Being exposed to and being involved in is the key. I am not suggesting that you simply go to clinics and listen (although this is better than not seeking information). You do not give HS strength coaches enough credit. I have had a lot of college strength coaches as friends over my long career and I will tell you that I was as qualified as they were. One tried to get me to to go through the process and become a PT, but I was not interested. I have been in WL ever since I was 14 years old and was a power lifted long after college. Your comparison is not a good one. Apples and oranges. Anyone can go through the training and certification process to become a PT. I see many who look like they have never lifted a weight. Don't tell me that this is not have anything to do with it. Knowledge is important but so is actual experience. You can hang around engineers 24 hours a day but unless you have gone through the educational process and are very good in the field of mathematics you probably will never qualify. My cousin is an aerospace engineer and has been for 45 years. He will be the first to tell you that actual experience in the field of engineering you are in will make you a better engineer. An example is an automotive engineer who has practical experience working on cars gives you an advantage over an automotive engineer who has never done this. A certificate does not replace knowledge and experience. Anyone can get a certificate whereas you can't get experience sitting in a classroom and passing a test. I will take someone who has years of experience who has spent many hours around a good college strength coach any day.

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Young people (both male and female) seem to be developing at a much faster rate.  My son is 6-3 290 pounds and isn't 15 yet.  He lifts or runs with the football team everyday and goes to a speed and conditioning coach 2 times a week.  I will say that the coaches and trainers talk to him about what he's putting in his body, such as his protein intake.  Look at pro sports and how the players have changed.  I think nutrition and training has come a long way.  Now I will say to that there are kids that are putting on weight the wrong way, but again I think how they train and refuel has evolved too.  I have also wondered myself about what has been put in our food over the years.

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On 6/28/2019 at 1:35 PM, Glenn said:

Being exposed to and being involved in is the key. I am not suggesting that you simply go to clinics and listen (although this is better than not seeking information). You do not give HS strength coaches enough credit. I have had a lot of college strength coaches as friends over my long career and I will tell you that I was as qualified as they were. One tried to get me to to go through the process and become a PT, but I was not interested. I have been in WL ever since I was 14 years old and was a power lifted long after college. Your comparison is not a good one. Apples and oranges. Anyone can go through the training and certification process to become a PT. I see many who look like they have never lifted a weight. Don't tell me that this is not have anything to do with it. Knowledge is important but so is actual experience. You can hang around engineers 24 hours a day but unless you have gone through the educational process and are very good in the field of mathematics you probably will never qualify. My cousin is an aerospace engineer and has been for 45 years. He will be the first to tell you that actual experience in the field of engineering you are in will make you a better engineer. An example is an automotive engineer who has practical experience working on cars gives you an advantage over an automotive engineer who has never done this. A certificate does not replace knowledge and experience. Anyone can get a certificate whereas you can't get experience sitting in a classroom and passing a test. I will take someone who has years of experience who has spent many hours around a good college strength coach any day.

Lol I'm not gonna argue with you over this, not because you're right(you're not), but because it isn't worth my time. Believe whatever you want bud, whatever helps you sleep at night. 

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No need to argue. You think you are right, but my years of being in FB and strength training say otherwise. I have given you my credentials so what are yours. I thought this was a discussion but it seems that you look at it as a debate in which your opinion is the only valid one.  I see your point and accept it as being your opinion. But the fact that you tell me I am wrong says that you don't feel the same way, so I will leave it at that. It is not my belief. It is what I have observed and experienced over my long tenure.  I won der how all these great HS athletes go on to become great college and pro players without having a PT. What does this have to do with how well I sleep at night? I never have a bad nights sleep.  At any rate I am through with this topic. 

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I will say this, I am sure we can all agree. As parents, coaches, and pt's we should all strive for  players to be the best they can be. Coaches have players in their program they workout to be their best. Some players and parents go outside the school boundaries, in addition to the work the player puts in with the coaches, and hires a personal trainer to have the players in shape and ready to go. Coaches have alot on their plate, some teaching classes ect. There just isn't enough time in the day to give each kid the personal instruction they may need. Some kids simply are not as naturally gifted as others and benefit from the extra work just to keep a starting spot on a competitive team. We all should teach these kids that being on a team is a commitment. I don't know of any coach that has been disappointed in a kid putting in extra work to be in the best shape he can possibly be in. Even if it is in addition to the coaches training. When a kid shows up to camp with 30lb more muscle, quicker feet, and better coordination you can just see the work he put in. It's a win/win situation. It should be commended. That should be an indication to the coach that the kid is dedicated to the team. I think we can agree there whether your a parent, coach, player, or pt.

   Are their kids out there doing steroids? Probably so, that's where we all need to be vigilant and teach the value of hardwork and the dangers of the shortcut. Like someone posted earlier, there is a better way that is just as efficient and can see the same gains in many ways.

  This cannot be reiterated enough! Only a small percentage of players will be recruited. Good coaches and parents know this and any player trying to achieve this had best know it too! If they work hard and are in the best shape they can achieve, they can look back with no regrets even if that offer never comes. This is where parents and coaches need to step in, take a minute at the appropriate time and whisper in the kid's ear that they acknowledge the work they put in and how proud they are of them for giving everything they had. Then, help those players realize they have a whole life to live and other achievements will come. This should be the standard response everytime a kids dream is over. No exceptions.

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After spending 3 days in Alabama at the Hoover 7 on 7 which attracts a ton of top flight programs I am blown away by this.

The size and strength of these outside kids just is crazy. Kids that would have been power forwards or DE's now are running and jumping off the field and it's pretty intimidating.  Some of these kids look like they are ready for the NFL combine right now.

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