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Who was the best 4A team ever in N.C.

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10 hours ago, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

we scored 440-270 and https://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/mooresville-blue-devils-(mooresville,nc)/football-fall-11/schedule.htm 

and even on CP page  420-263! and We got screwed at Burns so ASK any Mooresville fan - MC in 2011 was one of the best teams in NC and with PR we lost by 1 TD and We didnt have our Starting QB https://carolinapreps.com/teams/frontend/teampage/seasonSchedule/182/2011 and also we score 30+ pts in 7 games 

My response was strictly to your statement that Mooresville had the best defense in the state.  

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19 hours ago, Wrigley said:

You must have the year wrong on the Mville team. 2011  Mallard Creek beat them by 40 points I think.

If we are talking purely based on d1 talent then no we don’t compare. You’d probably have to go back to the days of when Corey Alexander played for us.

 

But that 2011 was our best chance to win state and probably will be for a while. We weren’t flashy on either side of the ball, especially offense.. but our QB ran the 40 in a sub 4.3 40... he was an asset in the read option game. Our defense that year was possibly a top 2 or 3 defense all time in our program. Sure Mallard Creek won big... but are we forgetting it was 24-3 in the middle of the 4th qtr when we gave up a punt/kick return for a score and a pick 6 the next series. Our defense was definitely worthy of being in the conversation... offense not so much 

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I actually remember that Mallard Creek game well... we were so one dimensional one offense of a team stopped our read option offense we were toast. I think we punted or turned the ball over on all 7 or 8 offensive possessions in the second half of that game. Lol. But despite that I still would say on the defensive side we had a shot in small 4A. Emphasis on “a shot”. Scotland was very strong that year

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40 minutes ago, MooresvilleDevil06 said:

I actually remember that Mallard Creek game well... we were so one dimensional one offense of a team stopped our read option offense we were toast. I think we punted or turned the ball over on all 7 or 8 offensive possessions in the second half of that game. Lol. But despite that I still would say on the defensive side we had a shot in small 4A. Emphasis on “a shot”. Scotland was very strong that year

I'm lost are we talking about best teams in NC ever or the best teams each school had??

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1 hour ago, 704cougarsdad said:

I'm lost are we talking about best teams in NC ever or the best teams each school had??

That’s a good question lol. Someone else brought up the 2011 Mooresville team- I only just saw it and was making my case for that team because I genuinely feel like they had a real shot to win state with that defense they had that year😂.

because if we’re talking best ever (from a D1 recruit/talent standpoint) then that team isn’t in that category. 

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1 hour ago, 704cougarsdad said:

I'm lost are we talking about best teams in NC ever or the best teams each school had??

It was intended to be the best team ever in NC for 4A.  Original post was placed in each classification.

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NO offense but why is Mooresville 2011 even being mentioned in this conversation? Didn;t they get run in multiple games in the regular season? EVen losing to Porter Ridge? I'd say Scotland 2011 needs more mention and Mooresville removed from convo just for that year alone. 

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7 minutes ago, J-Heat1110 said:

NO offense but why is Mooresville 2011 even being mentioned in this conversation? Didn;t they get run in multiple games in the regular season? EVen losing to Porter Ridge?

No... only game we “got run” in was Mallard Creek and that was a lot of late self inflicted damage in the 4th... was 24-3 mod 4th, ended up 45-3 I think. You could say looking at the score Burns took it to us... but that wouldn’t be accurate. That night was all messed up from the start.... I don’t think that game ended until like midnight or even a little later (and we won’t get started on the screw job we got in that game lol). 2011 was the year we shut out Hough on their homecoming and held them to negative offensive yardage. That was a fun night lol

 

Other than that we wont every other game, most of them comfortably. Took porter ridge to the limit with our back up QB... I still contend we were a better team than PR just got off to a really slow start. 

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Burns had an excellent team in 2011.  Teams mentioned as "all time great" in state history do not lose by 21 points to a smaller classification school regardless how bad the screw job was. 

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11 minutes ago, J-Heat1110 said:

NO offense but why is Mooresville 2011 even being mentioned in this conversation? Didn;t they get run in multiple games in the regular season? EVen losing to Porter Ridge?

No... only game we “got run” in was Mallard Creek and that was a lot of late self inflicted damage in the 4th... was 24-3 mod 4th, ended up 45-3 I think. You could say looking at the score Burns took it to us... but that wouldn’t be accurate. That night was all messed up from the start.... I don’t think that game ended until like midnight or even a little later (and we won’t get started on the screw job we got in that game lol). 

 

Other than that we wont every other game, most of them comfortably. Took porter ridge to the limit with our back up QB... I still contend we were a better team than PR just got off to a really slow start. 

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To be on an all time list there are two minimum requirements to me. A state title or a one loss season. Mooresville 11 has neither of those. Good team, but many highschools have good teams. They didn;t even win their conference IIRC. 

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2 minutes ago, J-Heat1110 said:

To be on an all time list there are two minimum requirements to me. A state title or a one loss season. Mooresville 11 has neither of those. Good team, but many highschools have good teams. They didn;t even win their conference IIRC. 

I don’t disagree at all with this. They’re name was mentioned and debated... i didn’t really take the list as an all time list, i was purely speaking out of teams I’ve seen with my eyes. I know there are better candidates, that 11 Mooresville team just happened to be one of the better ones I had seen in person. Tbh that team that year was largely carried by the defense. The offense wasn’t anything to write home about really. 

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3 minutes ago, MooresvilleDevil06 said:

No... only game we “got run” in was Mallard Creek and that was a lot of late self inflicted damage in the 4th... was 24-3 mod 4th, ended up 45-3 I think. You could say looking at the score Burns took it to us... but that wouldn’t be accurate. That night was all messed up from the start.... I don’t think that game ended until like midnight or even a little later (and we won’t get started on the screw job we got in that game lol). 

 

Other than that we wont every other game, most of them comfortably. Took porter ridge to the limit with our back up QB... I still contend we were a better team than PR just got off to a really slow start. 

I think when you start looking at losses and making attempts to justify scores that really just puts an end to the " Best Ever" conversation.  2011 Mville was a good squad. Not in the top 10 that year and not even close to  best ever.

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1 minute ago, Wrigley said:

I think when you start looking at losses and making attempts to justify scores that really just puts an end to the " Best Ever" conversation.  2011 Mville was a good squad. Not in the top 10 that year and not even close to  best ever.

Again... personally I wasn’t interpreting it as an all time list.... I had interpreted it as one of those “that you’ve seen in person” kinda deals lol. For me and my somewhat limited time following N.C. Football, that was one of the best teams I’ve seen in person not win a title. If we’re talking all time I wouldn’t put them on that list (although I admittedly couldn’t give you really many of examples having not really followed football state wide for very long)

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One team I am curious about would be that 2018 Hough team... where do you guys think they stack on a list like this? From a pure talent standpoint I don’t think you could ask for much more than they were given last season

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Couple of teams that come to mind:

1998 Richmond-undefeated and defending champs that beat Byrd (13-2), West Charlotte X2 (12-2) and crushed Garner (15-1) in finals.

https://carolinapreps.com/teams/frontend/teampage/seasonSchedule/300/1998

2004 Indy-was in college during this season but their scores were comical. Was this the team that only punted a couple times all season?

https://carolinapreps.com/teams/frontend/teampage/seasonSchedule/260/2004

2013 Mallard Creek-similar to Indy in 2004. Felt bad for Wake in the title game. 

https://carolinapreps.com/teams/frontend/teampage/seasonSchedule/561/2013

2009 Butler-slayed the Indy dragon

2011 Page-still can't believe they beat Butler and Mallard Creek in back to back weeks

 

 

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Crest IMHO Richmond 98 wasn't as good as Richmond 97. ALso Ricmond 97 practically had a ref cheat vs. WC in a late playoff game. Bunch of non-calls that really took the integrity out of that win. Was glad to See Indy go down there and smoke them to make a point about playing at RC. IN 98 the entire state was really down. WC 98 wasn't that good at all in comparison with other previous 90 teams. Crest was down, Byrd was down too. Northern Durham was down too. No other real challengers til AC reynolds popped on the scene. 

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1 minute ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Crest IMHO Richmond 98 wasn't as good as Richmond 97. ALso Ricmond 97 practically had a ref cheat vs. WC in a late playoff game. Bunch of non-calls that really took the integrity out of that win. Was glad to See Indy go down there and smoke them to make a point about playing at RC. IN 98 the entire state was really down. WC 98 wasn't that good at all in comparison with other previous 90 teams. Crest was down, Byrd was down too. Northern Durham was down too. No other real challengers til AC reynolds popped on the scene. 

I just remember seeing those scores roll across each week Richmond '98 and it wasn't close. Saw Richmond '97 and they looked alright but not the machine the next year team was. Will say that '98 WC should have won by more than it did against that Crest team. 

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Down year Crest. TBH I think the RC team that took Indy to the wire was really good, and the one that slipped up and won the title in 08 was really good at the end of the year. Wouldn;t bet against that team. But with the 3 losses they can't be considered all time great. But once they got that 2 Back option down pack, no one in the state was touching them. It was a thing of beauty. Its like those old time FSU teams. 93 may be best ever but had a loss, 99 was really good and undefeated, but many of the prior years teams could be considered better. 

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Two of the best high school teams I ever witnessed..The 1989  Richmond  Raiders and the 98 Richmond Raiders....97 could give them both a dog fight....

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2 hours ago, MooresvilleDevil06 said:

One team I am curious about would be that 2018 Hough team... where do you guys think they stack on a list like this? From a pure talent standpoint I don’t think you could ask for much more than they were given last season

When healthy a very good defense, just average on offense.

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55 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

When healthy a very good defense, just average on offense.

Wasnt impressed by them. A few good athletes but overrated. MP surprised me of how good they were.

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5 hours ago, raider1 said:

Two of the best high school teams I ever witnessed..The 1989  Richmond  Raiders and the 98 Richmond Raiders....97 could give them both a dog fight....

Give us some insight.  Why do you like 1998 over 1997 and 1989 over 1988?

Questionable call against Garner may well have kept Richmond from winning it all in 1987.  With that said Northern Durham had a lot of "almost" playoff games for about a ten year stretch.

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My reason would be 1998.. ..#1---16-0 record--- Regular season averaged 44 a game ..Defense gave up 5...scored 670 points on the year...total offense 6208...Beat Knotts twice ...beat the scots twice....Won State by 30 points....That offense was something to see...Micheal Waddell  , still has 3-4 state records , Marcus Ellerbe set record rushing in state game around 190 , Jason Ratliff  beast fullback, Brad Denson, never lost from 7-12 as qb....Good kicking game in Wesley Jackson set some school records...and a Defense that was nasty...............................89---15-0...... Led by Mike Thomas..All American, qb, 6-3, 205..cannon arm and a punishing runner, best punter in the country..Oscar Sturgis, tight end...Eric Thomas  , all UNC recruits...average victory 37 points...Defense led by nasty Leevary Covington...won State by 26  over ACReynolds, I believe...I would have paid money to have watched those two teams go after each other.....Would have to talk with D Barnes about who would win that game...Those two teams could play with any team in any decade....

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I thought 1989 was the best of the bunch but only saw them once and 1998 four times.  

1998 handed three teams their only loss(es), Scotland two of their three, Byrd one of their two with the other to Garner in the regional final.  

1997 handed three teams their only loss(es) but probably not as much depth in opposition.  Thought WC outplayed Richmond in the 1997 playoffs.  1997 and 1996 were the best teams Knotts had at WC but nowhere not the talent nor depth at Indy from 2001-2004. 

1988 beat several teams that had beaten one another such Garner and Millbrook splitting games, Millbrook beating Northern in regular season.  71st only two losses were to Richmond.  

1989 beat AC Reynolds, Northern Durham, Garner, 71st for their only loss(es)!  Impressive!  The days before subdivided playoffs were absolutle gauntlets in the playoffs! 

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9 hours ago, raider1 said:

My reason would be 1998.. ..#1---16-0 record--- Regular season averaged 44 a game ..Defense gave up 5...scored 670 points on the year...total offense 6208...Beat Knotts twice ...beat the scots twice....Won State by 30 points....That offense was something to see...Micheal Waddell  , still has 3-4 state records , Marcus Ellerbe set record rushing in state game around 190 , Jason Ratliff  beast fullback, Brad Denson, never lost from 7-12 as qb....Good kicking game in Wesley Jackson set some school records...and a Defense that was nasty...............................89---15-0...... Led by Mike Thomas..All American, qb, 6-3, 205..cannon arm and a punishing runner, best punter in the country..Oscar Sturgis, tight end...Eric Thomas  , all UNC recruits...average victory 37 points...Defense led by nasty Leevary Covington...won State by 26  over ACReynolds, I believe...I would have paid money to have watched those two teams go after each other.....Would have to talk with D Barnes about who would win that game...Those two teams could play with any team in any decade....

I remember 98 title game and how Garner was set to make sure Waddell didn't beat them. So Ellerbe just goes off instead. Fantastic team and all time great IMO. 

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If I were starting an all time team made up of Richmond County players I would be hard pressed for Marcus Ellerbe to not be my number one pick.  Thought he was the best all around footballer.  Dannell Ellerbe best defender.  His hit in Joe Cox swung the momentum in the third period of the 2003 regional final changing what Cox could do.  Guy played every play like it was the Super Bowl.  Melvin Ingram most talented, best prospect.

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14 hours ago, raider1 said:

My reason would be 1998.. ..#1---16-0 record--- Regular season averaged 44 a game ..Defense gave up 5...scored 670 points on the year...total offense 6208...Beat Knotts twice ...beat the scots twice....Won State by 30 points....That offense was something to see...Micheal Waddell  , still has 3-4 state records , Marcus Ellerbe set record rushing in state game around 190 , Jason Ratliff  beast fullback, Brad Denson, never lost from 7-12 as qb....Good kicking game in Wesley Jackson set some school records...and a Defense that was nasty...............................89---15-0...... Led by Mike Thomas..All American, qb, 6-3, 205..cannon arm and a punishing runner, best punter in the country..Oscar Sturgis, tight end...Eric Thomas  , all UNC recruits...average victory 37 points...Defense led by nasty Leevary Covington...won State by 26  over ACReynolds, I believe...I would have paid money to have watched those two teams go after each other.....Would have to talk with D Barnes about who would win that game...Those two teams could play with any team in any decade....

One person I would like to bring up on the 89 team a back named Flip Ellerbe...All of our backs from his time on have been compared to try to get to the level he was ...That was one mean , tough , rascal...Several times with the game on the line 4th down and whatever , the ball went to FLIP....And he answered with whatever was needed to keep rolling....

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2 hours ago, J-Heat1110 said:

Dudley 2008 was a monster too. Can't forget the D boys. 

Saw Richmond play their first two games that year.  Tied New Bern and lost19-15 to Dudley.  Richmond there an INT on first down at the goal line in the last minute.  Still scratching my head on that one.  The Richmond team I saw the the last two games that year was one of the more improved by changes I have seen.  Thought Mallard Creek 2013 made some great “growth changes” from first game to title game.

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2 hours ago, raider1 said:

One person I would like to bring up on the 89 team a back named Flip Ellerbe...All of our backs from his time on have been compared to try to get to the level he was ...That was one mean , tough , rascal...Several times with the game on the line 4th down and whatever , the ball went to FLIP....And he answered with whatever was needed to keep rolling....

Twice in 1990 title game he got 11 on 4th and 10’s.

Solid team and line around him especially in 1989.  Perfect fit for what Richmond did well.

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On 6/16/2019 at 11:10 AM, Chris Hughes said:

2004 Independence 

2002 Independence 

2003 Independence 

2013 Mallard Creek

2012 Butler 

1998 Richmond 

1993 Northern Durham

2010 Butler

1985 Page

2016 Wake Forest 

1988 Richmond 

2009 Butler 

2001 Independence 

1995 West Charlotte 

On 6/16/2019 at 11:44 AM, Chris Hughes said:

There have been some instances where the best team of the year didn’t win it all, but were equally dominant and had a bad playoff loss, but these teams, had they finished the deal would still be considered some of the best ever.  

1995 Douglas Byrd

1994 Douglas Byrd

1999 West Charlotte 

1998 West Charlotte 

1996 West Charlotte

1993 West Charlotte 

1991 West Charlotte 

1980 Kannapolis 

2000 Garner 

2001 Laney

1990 West Forsyth 

2011 Mallard Creek 


after much conversing about this topic
It seems pretty hard to not include Page 2011, especially if you are going to include Butler 2010, 2012, and then also mention Mallard Creek 2011 as one of the best to not win it all.
Especially because most Page old heads will tell you that Page 2011 and 1985 were about even, except you have to account for the Summers factor.

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On 6/16/2019 at 2:08 PM, BlueDevilsBiggestFan said:

Mooresville has a had some esp in Late 1990s and Early 2000s under Mike Carter 

Also 2011 Mooresville team is my pick , Top Defense in the State, Went to Semi Finals , Had a Dynamic Offense with a short QB (Debo 1.0) and Thing kill mooresville that year was Debo got hurt in the playoff run  

The idea of Mooresville as best 4A team ever has never been a reality up to this day.

No one can predict the future but as of today and before....

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On 6/18/2019 at 10:03 AM, btango said:

If I were starting an all time team made up of Richmond County players I would be hard pressed for Marcus Ellerbe to not be my number one pick.  Thought he was the best all around footballer.  Dannell Ellerbe best defender.  His hit in Joe Cox swung the momentum in the third period of the 2003 regional final changing what Cox could do.  Guy played every play like it was the Super Bowl.  Melvin Ingram most talented, best prospect.

All those mentioned above were great. Marcus was special and could and did impact the game in many ways. Dannell I thought was a little above average high school player who obviously had a tremendous upside. Melvin could dominate a game at any time at any position but only did so occassionaly (maturity thing for him).

Nate Robinson best overall player I ever saw at Richmond. Shut down corner (ask Massaqoui), returner, reciever.... whatever team needed he could provide. Single handedly beat a very good Mt. Tabor team in playoffs. Tedarrius Wiley was unbelievable as QB but battled a lot of injuries his senior year. He was 20-25 for 4 td's and 325 yds. in the state championship as a junior (not bad for a QB on a team that "runs it up the middle all the time"). Flip Ellerebe was Barry Sanders of high school football he was a joy to watch run the ball with insane balance and vision.

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Already been mentioned, but 2003 Richmond team was very, very good. I believe they were the only team to really challenge Indy that year. Missed FG away from putting them on a different list. Todd Ellis Page team was good. Brad Edwards Byrd team very good. 87 Garner team with Anthony Barbour was special. Only high school team i have seen better than 03, 04 Indy was '18 DF but they are not in NC.

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1 hour ago, Greengold4ever said:

All those mentioned above were great. Marcus was special and could and did impact the game in many ways. Dannell I thought was a little above average high school player who obviously had a tremendous upside. Melvin could dominate a game at any time at any position but only did so occassionaly (maturity thing for him).

Week leading up to Richmond game in 2003 Indy coaches were concerned with Ellerbe’s speed off the edge and ability to close in open field.  They saw him as a big disrupter.  His hit in Cox changed the way the game was headed.

 

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On 6/18/2019 at 12:34 AM, btango said:

I thought 1989 was the best of the bunch but only saw them once and 1998 four times.  

1998 handed three teams their only loss(es), Scotland two of their three, Byrd one of their two with the other to Garner in the regional final.  

1997 handed three teams their only loss(es) but probably not as much depth in opposition.  Thought WC outplayed Richmond in the 1997 playoffs.  1997 and 1996 were the best teams Knotts had at WC but nowhere not the talent nor depth at Indy from 2001-2004. 

1988 beat several teams that had beaten one another such Garner and Millbrook splitting games, Millbrook beating Northern in regular season.  71st only two losses were to Richmond.  

1989 beat AC Reynolds, West Forsyth, Northern Durham, Garner, 71st for their only loss(es)!  Impressive!  The days before subdivided playoffs were absolutle gauntlets in the playoffs! 

In 1989 were they in the West bracket or East? 

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