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Is $100,000 to much to pay a high school football coach?

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All I know is what I was told by some guys (relatives) in those districts. The only time I read the Burlington paper is during FB season. If I am wrong then I am happy I am wrong. When was this bond passed and by what percentage. I ask because my sources may have been outdated. I do know that they were very skeptical that any of this was going to pass. I think I talked to them last summer. My faith has been restored in the good people (and relatives) in Alamance County. When will the new HS be completed? Will it include all the athletic facilities? Also, where will it be located? When I was at Mt. Pleasaant HS (Cabarrus County) they built a new MPHS on 110 acres of land. They built the school, FB stadium, 8 lane track, field house, practice field, baseball stadium, softball stadium and put an automated field watering system on all those fields. That was nice. I know that in many cases they build the school and expect the boosters to do the rest. One nice thing was that the residences at the Prison Farm dug out all the seats on both sides of the horse shoe shaped stadium (it was built in a former pond) and I saw them doing it everyday out my classroom window.

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On 6/4/2019 at 9:34 AM, RaiderDebater said:

If the program is bringing in revenue to warrant the salary, then by all means.  As far as administration goes, there is a lot that goes into being an administrator.  A coach is responsible for his players, an administrator is responsible for all lives in the building, at all times.  Their pay is warranted.

Football is not the only sport that gets paid in SC.  Checked the salary base and you will see a few coaches making pretty good salaries, maybe not 100, 000 but pretty good.  I mean the Assisting Coaches Salaries at some of these schools are more than the HC in NC.  Some are making 6,000 plus.  I know Tommy Knotts was paying his OC 10,000.  So if your Teaching salary is 50 thousand plus, which is the case in York and where Knotts is.  Another 10 thousand would put you in the HIgh 60.

The money is GREAT!!!! But as Mr. Knotts said, it is more about NOT TEACHING a class!!!!.  CMS is about the only system that still will not fully let you teach out of your certification PLUS teach a FULL LOAD!!!!  So if you a Math Teacher, and want to teach your weight room, it will not happen in CMS.  Other systems let that happen. So you might have a teacher that does not coach ANY SPORT, teaching your Athletes. 

The plus to CMS is that you will coach some PLAYERS!!! but it is a reason why Newsome left? It is a reason why Mooresville and Richmond County are a few of the best opportunities in NC to make a little money and find a way to get all your kids in the weight classes.

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1 hour ago, 1whoknows said:

Football is not the only sport that gets paid in SC.  Checked the salary base and you will see a few coaches making pretty good salaries, maybe not 100, 000 but pretty good.  I mean the Assisting Coaches Salaries at some of these schools are more than the HC in NC.  Some are making 6,000 plus.  I know Tommy Knotts was paying his OC 10,000.  So if your Teaching salary is 50 thousand plus, which is the case in York and where Knotts is.  Another 10 thousand would put you in the HIgh 60.

The money is GREAT!!!! But as Mr. Knotts said, it is more about NOT TEACHING a class!!!!.  CMS is about the only system that still will not fully let you teach out of your certification PLUS teach a FULL LOAD!!!!  So if you a Math Teacher, and want to teach your weight room, it will not happen in CMS.  Other systems let that happen. So you might have a teacher that does not coach ANY SPORT, teaching your Athletes. 

The plus to CMS is that you will coach some PLAYERS!!! but it is a reason why Newsome left? It is a reason why Mooresville and Richmond County are a few of the best opportunities in NC to make a little money and find a way to get all your kids in the weight classes.

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

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1 minute ago, RaiderDebater said:

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

You are correct about the comparison in salary!!!  Did not know he was History full time!!!

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39 minutes ago, RaiderDebater said:

I stand corrected. Castellano did not have a full slate. 

He does, WINNING!!😀 So you are correct.

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:29 PM, Wrigley said:

Formulate it just like SC. Let the community decide how important that position is to them and if the booster club or deep pocketed supporters want to get together and throw some cash and other perks on top of the base salary have at it. 

The minute private investors have that much say in the salary of a coach it equals trouble. That opens the door for all kind of crap that kills football teams. "I pay your salary so I expect little Timmy to be on the field a lot more!"  

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15 hours ago, RaiderDebater said:

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

true, but his teaching salary was at least half that or a little more. He wasn't making 77 to coach only. The top five highest paid coaches in the mountains all make 65+ but they all teach a full schedule. 

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1 hour ago, Paul Graham said:

The minute private investors have that much say in the salary of a coach it equals trouble. That opens the door for all kind of crap that kills football teams. "I pay your salary so I expect little Timmy to be on the field a lot more!"  

Yup...people who invest their $$ typically are looking for some kind of return on that investment.  That said,  you want $100k salaries, beautiful weight rooms and college like stadiums the money is coming from somewhere other than the taxpayer. How do you think they do it in TX and other states?

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So here is what I don't get and I am sure it's because I have never been that close to it. If I am the football coach at let's say Irmo and I have 60-80 kids in the program and 6 or 7 assistants what is it that I do all day if I am not teaching? What about January- May. 

Someone walk me through a day in the life?

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18 hours ago, Wrigley said:

So here is what I don't get and I am sure it's because I have never been that close to it. If I am the football coach at let's say Irmo and I have 60-80 kids in the program and 6 or 7 assistants what is it that I do all day if I am not teaching? What about January- May. 

Someone walk me through a day in the life?

Contact Coach Knotts and he will let you know!!! and Why he is still winning Championships!!!!  And actually, Irmo and Knotts have about 12 or 13 assistants, maybe more, that do teach all day.

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One of the DF assistants is also the assistant AD.  Half a day teaching the last half athletic department.  Athletic department secretary has her office right beside the football coaches office / locker room.

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20 hours ago, Paul Graham said:

true, but his teaching salary was at least half that or a little more. He wasn't making 77 to coach only. The top five highest paid coaches in the mountains all make 65+ but they all teach a full schedule. 

You are correct.  If you are a 12-month employee, that coach in NC, you could be between 70-80,000 if you have some years in the bank.  So you are talking about a 25,000 pay raise.  If Coach Knotts was a 12-month employee while in Charlotte, that is about what you looking at.  If you want to keep the coaches in CMS, give them 12 months and make them cut the fields like these other counties.  And at least 2 classes a day out for 4.  Put all their kids in the weight room, so you do not have to WORK FOR FREE afterschool to lift the kids that don't have weight room during the day.  

Those you do not teach and coach DAILY in a public school system do not understand the differences between schools and counties.  We all just want to be on the same playing field. Also, you have to love to coach, because if you just a regular teacher, you can basically stay afterschool Monday-Thursday and tutor your own kids and make more money than coaches and it is not taxed 50 percent!!!.  That is right, the coaches pay is considered a LUXURY TAX.  So if you make 6,000 for coaching football, you get half, like ALIMONY!!!!😀 On your check. 

Now while we are on the HCs, the question should be; why be an assistant coach in CMS.  They have not gotten a raise and they take half of their money also.  You are better off not teaching and being a NON-faculty coach because you will get more on your check because it is tax regularly. And they definitely can make more money in a month, working after school for an HOUR in a month, than coaching until December spending 3-4 hours.

So the next time some of the fans want to yell from the stands at the coaches, much less some of these youth coaches, BELIEVE me, they are ALL are working for FREE.  And let's not start about having to pick them up and drop them off while their parents are home!!!

Thatis is why coaches NEED, NO CLASSES and 100,000.  Come and spend a day in the world of education and coaching.

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So it sucks, and I get it but in the end for all the negatives much of pay scale comes down to supply and demand. How many open HC jobs in CMS right now? I can think of one. Vance job was filled in 6 days. Big list of candidates for the MC OC spot earlier in the year. 

If it is such a grind and the compensation is so awful....why do guys keep lining up for a shot?

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21 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

So it sucks, and I get it but in the end for all the negatives much of pay scale comes down to supply and demand. How many open HC jobs in CMS right now? I can think of one. Vance job was filled in 6 days. Big list of candidates for the MC OC spot earlier in the year. 

If it is such a grind and the compensation is so awful....why do guys keep lining up for a shot?

The same reason you see guys retire from a sport and come back!!! It is more than pay that got us into this and definitely more than the pay that keeps us doing this, but just like the Price of a dollar when you were born, it doesn't buy the same now!!!  It is still about the grind and what comes along with the GAME!!! and many rather be with a bunch of football coaches than at home doing HONEY DO LIST😀 Plus once you are in the NC retirement system after 10 years, you are stuck, unless a job like IRMO comes along. 

I not sitting here complaining, but I believe this topic was about "Is a 100,000 too much?" So I was giving alternatives to what would keep some of the better coaches in NC.  Knotts got his 30 years in, So it makes sense for what he is doing, DOUBLE DIPPING,  But Brand and Gutshall left with 20 years in.  Actually, Gutshall left with 19 years in.

  • So in NC if you get to 20 years, you are invested in State Insurance.  You will be insured for the rest of your life, so there is that benefit.
  • Secondly, the higher you can make your Salary for 5 years is what your retirement will be base on.  So if football gives me an extra 10,000 a year in Salary, it will be beneficial down

We are not complaining and we don't say it sucks.  But just like everything else,  times have changed.  Before the '90s this was not a 365-day job.  Not in high school and not in college.  Even in college, they sent you home for the summer with a workout plan.  In high school, Nobody worked out afterschool and definitely not the summer.  The summer was yours.  So the HC and assistant coaches time was not asked a lot of.  Fast forward to today and the NCHSAA had to put down MANDATES, just to make coaches take a vacation!!!

  • The week of the Coaches Clinic week is a dead period NOW.  Because you had some coaches coming for a week and using the clinic for what it was intended for.  Then you had some still at home requiring their kids to be at workouts or 7 on 7's.
  • The week of the 4th of July is dead period NOW because you had many just giving the day of the 4trh off and that was it.
  • That is how serious Coaches take it, REGARDLESS of what they are paid!!!!  We all are competitors and just because some schools have better situations, the goal is to reach that level!!!

Basically, I am saying ALL schools should be alike. I mean if INDY can find a way to keep Knotts out of the classroom and he is a Social Studies teacher, why couldn't Butler do the same for NEWSOME?  But you wanted him to beat him, but not on the same level playing field.  If Indy found a way to put all their kids in the weight room, why not VANCE, you want them to beat them.  Each LEA could make all the schools in their system comparable.  You shouldn't have 14 plus high schools in CMS, I can never keep count, and Every school has a different plan when it comes to finding a way to get their kids in the weight room during the day.  And I am talking ALL athletes, not just football players.

I mean every school you need 4 English, 3 maths, 2 SS, etc.  Why hasn't the State of NC develop a curriculum for PE across the board? I mean we keep trying to find the BEST way to increase TEST scores.  But we continue to let kids stay out of shape and overweight.  Make PE mandatory for 4 years.  Make having to complete a mile in a certain time part of passing an ADVANCE PE course that gives quality points. 

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11 minutes ago, 1whoknows said:

The same reason you see guys retire from a sport and come back!!! It is more than pay that got us into this and definitely more than the pay that keeps us doing this, but just like the Price of a dollar when you were born, it doesn't buy the same now!!!  It is still about the grind and what comes along with the GAME!!! and many rather be with a bunch of football coaches than at home doing HONEY DO LIST😀 Plus once you are in the NC retirement system after 10 years, you are stuck, unless a job like IRMO comes along. 

I not sitting here complaining, but I believe this topic was about "Is a 100,000 too much?" So I was giving alternatives to what would keep some of the better coaches in NC.  Knotts got his 30 years in, So it makes sense for what he is doing, DOUBLE DIPPING,  But Brand and Gutshall left with 20 years in.  Actually, Gutshall left with 19 years in.

  • So in NC if you get to 20 years, you are invested in State Insurance.  You will be insured for the rest of your life, so there is that benefit.
  • Secondly, the higher you can make your Salary for 5 years is what your retirement will be base on.  So if football gives me an extra 10,000 a year in Salary, it will be beneficial down

We are not complaining and we don't say it sucks.  But just like everything else,  times have changed.  Before the '90s this was not a 365-day job.  Not in high school and not in college.  Even in college, they sent you home for the summer with a workout plan.  In high school, Nobody worked out afterschool and definitely not the summer.  The summer was yours.  So the HC and assistant coaches time was not asked a lot of.  Fast forward to today and the NCHSAA had to put down MANDATES, just to make coaches take a vacation!!!

  • The week of the Coaches Clinic week is a dead period NOW.  Because you had some coaches coming for a week and using the clinic for what it was intended for.  Then you had some still at home requiring their kids to be at workouts or 7 on 7's.
  • The week of the 4th of July is dead period NOW because you had many just giving the day of the 4trh off and that was it.
  • That is how serious Coaches take it, REGARDLESS of what they are paid!!!!  We all are competitors and just because some schools have better situations, the goal is to reach that level!!!

Basically, I am saying ALL schools should be alike. I mean if INDY can find a way to keep Knotts out of the classroom and he is a Social Studies teacher, why couldn't Butler do the same for NEWSOME?  But you wanted him to beat him, but not on the same level playing field.  If Indy found a way to put all their kids in the weight room, why not VANCE, you want them to beat them.  Each LEA could make all the schools in their system comparable.  You shouldn't have 14 plus high schools in CMS, I can never keep count, and Every school has a different plan when it comes to finding a way to get their kids in the weight room during the day.  And I am talking ALL athletes, not just football players.

I mean every school you need 4 English, 3 maths, 2 SS, etc.  Why hasn't the State of NC develop a curriculum for PE across the board? I mean we keep trying to find the BEST way to increase TEST scores.  But we continue to let kids stay out of shape and overweight.  Make PE mandatory for 4 years.  Make having to complete a mile in a certain time part of passing an ADVANCE PE course that gives quality points. 

Well articulated as always and I rarely debate on subjects I don't have a solid understanding of.

Your right....times are changing and the demands are increasing but here is another thought. More and more football inches toward being a niche sport. There are pockets where it thrives but numbers are down significantly and you have to wonder when some of these CMS schools just say screw it and end the programs. Now what happens to your profession?? Does it go the way of Blockbuster or the Yellow pages?

The drumbeat you are calling for is more $$ and less teaching. The landscape indicates that isn't the direction anyone will be moving. One thing that is an absolute is that without players there is little need for coaches.

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6 hours ago, Wrigley said:

Well articulated as always and I rarely debate on subjects I don't have a solid understanding of.

Your right....times are changing and the demands are increasing but here is another thought. More and more football inches toward being a niche sport. There are pockets where it thrives but numbers are down significantly and you have to wonder when some of these CMS schools just say screw it and end the programs. Now what happens to your profession?? Does it go the way of Blockbuster or the Yellow pages?

The drumbeat you are calling for is more $$ and less teaching. The landscape indicates that isn't the direction anyone will be moving. One thing that is an absolute is that without players there is little need for coaches.

I do agree with all the above.  That's is why SC and Texas are different animals.  Because it is towns that shut down to watch "Friday Night Lights"  It is also why UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF cannot be a consistent player in football.  People must care!!!

I will say this, for all the money and effort that school systems spend trying to find the NEXT best way of teaching our youth and "Closing the Achievement Gap," EVERY COACH can go on record that sports are the NUMBER 1 DROPOUT PREVENTION PROGRAM in the school.  And the football coach has more influence over the school than the Administration!  

CMS can solve their own problems.  They have some schools with 3,000 kids and some with half that.  Redraw the lines.  I doubt CMS is any jeopardy with their schools, but it is some pockets, as you say, that are facing the music as I type.  That goes back to my statement on making PE more mandatory and more than just rolling out the balls. Putting more weight classes during the day, which would solve the issues when I kid will choose work or AAU ball, instead of staying after school to train.

Again, I want to end with CMS or any other Counties do not need to offer 100,000.  They need to make it where a coach can work smarter, not harder.  

The one thing SC started with a few years ago and I know Texas has this also.  That 4th period of the day was an Athletic Period.  All the football coaches had 4th-period planning.  They were able to lift weights with all the coaches available and also go out and practice in the spring before school was out.  So everything was done.  Kids had a life after school and so did coaches.  The Texas High School I visited had this for ALL their sports!!!  The track team was at practice, baseball was at practice etc. and the kids are getting on the bus, you would not have coaches taking kids home every day and using their gas money and time

So it is ways to make it better without more money.  I believe coaches and especially their wives would love time back first. At your point about NO CMS jobs being OPEN.  Just because it is filled, doesn't mean you have the right person.  I been around many guys that thought they were ready to be a HC and have not put the time in as an assistant.  And when I make that statement, I mean while you are an assistant, a coach like you want to move up to the next level.  

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I can’t read all the comments so I may miss some points but trust me guys.. coaches in CMS don’t have it bad. Most are not teaching full loads... and most teach weight lifting classes with their players and other sports players in those classes. 100% the bottom line is the money. That’s the main reason a coach leaves Charlotte to go to a small town in SC. Outside of Dutchfork... school for school athlete for athlete.... it ain’t close guys NC is becoming a hotbed. Our in state universities can’t win big simply because our top kids are choosing to go away to the big time SEC type schools.... has nothing to do with coaches leaving. And as far as coaches leaving... there will never be a shortage of coaching talent in Charlotte because there will never be a shortage of player talent in Charlotte. CMS certainly need to pay coaches and ADs more but trust me... your top sports schools CMS find ways to lessen daytime responsibilities for their coaches. Don’t believe the hype .... mostly about the $$$... and I believe if there is a market for you to get it... go get it. 

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ZBV, I agree money is the main reason they jump but it is not always just the pay check.  I think hitting twenty years opens their eyes to eventual double dipping and double retirement.  Also, agree the talent level in Charlotte metro is ridiculous and that is a huge draw.

Knotts left with thirty years but he will tell you the quality of football life is light years from what you have available in CMS and the system works with you more often than against you.  A school or system that has autonomy in determining how they want to run their program, like Kannapolis or Richmond, allows them to customize things much more than in a large system.

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1whoknows

it is not taxed 50 percent!!!. 

My coaching supplement has never been taxed at 50%.

 

 

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Wrigley, I actually like the Dead Periods. I think it refreshes the coaches and the kids to be able to get away in the summer because our seasons are so long.

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That's is why SC and Texas are different animals.  Because it is towns that shut down to watch "Friday Night Lights"  It is also why UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF cannot be a consistent player in football.  People must care!!!

One reason that kids go out of state to play is because we have people in NC who preach to the kids to go out of state. I see this on FB sites all the time. NC Preps is the worse. I guarantees you that SC, FL, TX, OK, etc. do not do this. They preach for their kids to stay in state. The reason why NCSU, NC, Duke, WF get most of their players from out of state is because we send ours away.

NC HS players are as good as those in the other states and how much their HC makes or how large their stadiums are. Most of the coaches are hard working dedicated men who are outstanding coaches. If they were not, they would not be successful in other states.

Plus, like I said before when I was in Cabarrus County I made as much as the top head FB coaches because I also taught DE outside school hours.

The top teaching salary with a masters (I got this from a scale off the internet) is over $63,000. With a local teacher supplement and a coaching supplement it is in the $70 + range. So, if I was still there teaching and coaching along with my DE pay,  I would be making more than the top paying HC in SC.

My point is that money was never an issue the entire number of years I have been in this profession.

Plus, as someone pointed out if you are paid by the parents then they can have you fired whereas if you teach and you are fired you still have a job. I enjoyed teaching  weight lifting classes for 3 periods a day.

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48 minutes ago, Glenn said:

The top teaching salary with a masters (I got this from a scale off the internet) is over $63,000. With a local teacher supplement and a coaching supplement it is in the $70 + range. So, if I was still there teaching and coaching along with my DE pay,  I would be making more than the top paying HC in SC.

The highest paid HC in SC has a base of just over $108k.  That does not include the weekly playoff play as they go through the post season.

Did you do the Drivers Ed classes during non school hours?

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4 hours ago, btango said:

ZBV, I agree money is the main reason they jump but it is not always just the pay check.  I think hitting twenty years opens their eyes to eventual double dipping and double retirement.  Also, agree the talent level in Charlotte metro is ridiculous and that is a huge draw.

Knotts left with thirty years but he will tell you the quality of football life is light years from what you have available in CMS and the system works with you more often than against you.  A school or system that has autonomy in determining how they want to run their program, like Kannapolis or Richmond, allows them to customize things much more than in a large system.

BTango , the double dipping still falls under money for me. That’s huge when you can look at what you can potentially bump your retirement to by jumping across the border. I have also heard about the fewer rules and football coaches can run their programs without looking over their shoulders..so I would agree they cater to athletics more At the same token B... I have tons of colleges that come into my office and vent that it’s hard to recruit SC or surrounding areas because kids just don’t have the dag on grades. I may be wrong.. but I don’t see a whole lot of SC high schools posting 10-18 football signings on signing day like a Vance, MC, Hough, MP.. etc. again, I could be wrong. Maybe They do, but I don’t hear of the large signing classes from these high schools. Now the one area that SC blows us out the water... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT is in the facilities area!! I read somewhere that one SC town charges an extra penny tax or something like that and all of that go to upgrading athletic facilities. 

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