Jump to content

BigB704

Is $100,000 to much to pay a high school football coach?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

So it sucks, and I get it but in the end for all the negatives much of pay scale comes down to supply and demand. How many open HC jobs in CMS right now? I can think of one. Vance job was filled in 6 days. Big list of candidates for the MC OC spot earlier in the year. 

If it is such a grind and the compensation is so awful....why do guys keep lining up for a shot?

The same reason you see guys retire from a sport and come back!!! It is more than pay that got us into this and definitely more than the pay that keeps us doing this, but just like the Price of a dollar when you were born, it doesn't buy the same now!!!  It is still about the grind and what comes along with the GAME!!! and many rather be with a bunch of football coaches than at home doing HONEY DO LIST😀 Plus once you are in the NC retirement system after 10 years, you are stuck, unless a job like IRMO comes along. 

I not sitting here complaining, but I believe this topic was about "Is a 100,000 too much?" So I was giving alternatives to what would keep some of the better coaches in NC.  Knotts got his 30 years in, So it makes sense for what he is doing, DOUBLE DIPPING,  But Brand and Gutshall left with 20 years in.  Actually, Gutshall left with 19 years in.

  • So in NC if you get to 20 years, you are invested in State Insurance.  You will be insured for the rest of your life, so there is that benefit.
  • Secondly, the higher you can make your Salary for 5 years is what your retirement will be base on.  So if football gives me an extra 10,000 a year in Salary, it will be beneficial down

We are not complaining and we don't say it sucks.  But just like everything else,  times have changed.  Before the '90s this was not a 365-day job.  Not in high school and not in college.  Even in college, they sent you home for the summer with a workout plan.  In high school, Nobody worked out afterschool and definitely not the summer.  The summer was yours.  So the HC and assistant coaches time was not asked a lot of.  Fast forward to today and the NCHSAA had to put down MANDATES, just to make coaches take a vacation!!!

  • The week of the Coaches Clinic week is a dead period NOW.  Because you had some coaches coming for a week and using the clinic for what it was intended for.  Then you had some still at home requiring their kids to be at workouts or 7 on 7's.
  • The week of the 4th of July is dead period NOW because you had many just giving the day of the 4trh off and that was it.
  • That is how serious Coaches take it, REGARDLESS of what they are paid!!!!  We all are competitors and just because some schools have better situations, the goal is to reach that level!!!

Basically, I am saying ALL schools should be alike. I mean if INDY can find a way to keep Knotts out of the classroom and he is a Social Studies teacher, why couldn't Butler do the same for NEWSOME?  But you wanted him to beat him, but not on the same level playing field.  If Indy found a way to put all their kids in the weight room, why not VANCE, you want them to beat them.  Each LEA could make all the schools in their system comparable.  You shouldn't have 14 plus high schools in CMS, I can never keep count, and Every school has a different plan when it comes to finding a way to get their kids in the weight room during the day.  And I am talking ALL athletes, not just football players.

I mean every school you need 4 English, 3 maths, 2 SS, etc.  Why hasn't the State of NC develop a curriculum for PE across the board? I mean we keep trying to find the BEST way to increase TEST scores.  But we continue to let kids stay out of shape and overweight.  Make PE mandatory for 4 years.  Make having to complete a mile in a certain time part of passing an ADVANCE PE course that gives quality points. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, 1whoknows said:

The same reason you see guys retire from a sport and come back!!! It is more than pay that got us into this and definitely more than the pay that keeps us doing this, but just like the Price of a dollar when you were born, it doesn't buy the same now!!!  It is still about the grind and what comes along with the GAME!!! and many rather be with a bunch of football coaches than at home doing HONEY DO LIST😀 Plus once you are in the NC retirement system after 10 years, you are stuck, unless a job like IRMO comes along. 

I not sitting here complaining, but I believe this topic was about "Is a 100,000 too much?" So I was giving alternatives to what would keep some of the better coaches in NC.  Knotts got his 30 years in, So it makes sense for what he is doing, DOUBLE DIPPING,  But Brand and Gutshall left with 20 years in.  Actually, Gutshall left with 19 years in.

  • So in NC if you get to 20 years, you are invested in State Insurance.  You will be insured for the rest of your life, so there is that benefit.
  • Secondly, the higher you can make your Salary for 5 years is what your retirement will be base on.  So if football gives me an extra 10,000 a year in Salary, it will be beneficial down

We are not complaining and we don't say it sucks.  But just like everything else,  times have changed.  Before the '90s this was not a 365-day job.  Not in high school and not in college.  Even in college, they sent you home for the summer with a workout plan.  In high school, Nobody worked out afterschool and definitely not the summer.  The summer was yours.  So the HC and assistant coaches time was not asked a lot of.  Fast forward to today and the NCHSAA had to put down MANDATES, just to make coaches take a vacation!!!

  • The week of the Coaches Clinic week is a dead period NOW.  Because you had some coaches coming for a week and using the clinic for what it was intended for.  Then you had some still at home requiring their kids to be at workouts or 7 on 7's.
  • The week of the 4th of July is dead period NOW because you had many just giving the day of the 4trh off and that was it.
  • That is how serious Coaches take it, REGARDLESS of what they are paid!!!!  We all are competitors and just because some schools have better situations, the goal is to reach that level!!!

Basically, I am saying ALL schools should be alike. I mean if INDY can find a way to keep Knotts out of the classroom and he is a Social Studies teacher, why couldn't Butler do the same for NEWSOME?  But you wanted him to beat him, but not on the same level playing field.  If Indy found a way to put all their kids in the weight room, why not VANCE, you want them to beat them.  Each LEA could make all the schools in their system comparable.  You shouldn't have 14 plus high schools in CMS, I can never keep count, and Every school has a different plan when it comes to finding a way to get their kids in the weight room during the day.  And I am talking ALL athletes, not just football players.

I mean every school you need 4 English, 3 maths, 2 SS, etc.  Why hasn't the State of NC develop a curriculum for PE across the board? I mean we keep trying to find the BEST way to increase TEST scores.  But we continue to let kids stay out of shape and overweight.  Make PE mandatory for 4 years.  Make having to complete a mile in a certain time part of passing an ADVANCE PE course that gives quality points. 

Well articulated as always and I rarely debate on subjects I don't have a solid understanding of.

Your right....times are changing and the demands are increasing but here is another thought. More and more football inches toward being a niche sport. There are pockets where it thrives but numbers are down significantly and you have to wonder when some of these CMS schools just say screw it and end the programs. Now what happens to your profession?? Does it go the way of Blockbuster or the Yellow pages?

The drumbeat you are calling for is more $$ and less teaching. The landscape indicates that isn't the direction anyone will be moving. One thing that is an absolute is that without players there is little need for coaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wrigley said:

Well articulated as always and I rarely debate on subjects I don't have a solid understanding of.

Your right....times are changing and the demands are increasing but here is another thought. More and more football inches toward being a niche sport. There are pockets where it thrives but numbers are down significantly and you have to wonder when some of these CMS schools just say screw it and end the programs. Now what happens to your profession?? Does it go the way of Blockbuster or the Yellow pages?

The drumbeat you are calling for is more $$ and less teaching. The landscape indicates that isn't the direction anyone will be moving. One thing that is an absolute is that without players there is little need for coaches.

I do agree with all the above.  That's is why SC and Texas are different animals.  Because it is towns that shut down to watch "Friday Night Lights"  It is also why UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF cannot be a consistent player in football.  People must care!!!

I will say this, for all the money and effort that school systems spend trying to find the NEXT best way of teaching our youth and "Closing the Achievement Gap," EVERY COACH can go on record that sports are the NUMBER 1 DROPOUT PREVENTION PROGRAM in the school.  And the football coach has more influence over the school than the Administration!  

CMS can solve their own problems.  They have some schools with 3,000 kids and some with half that.  Redraw the lines.  I doubt CMS is any jeopardy with their schools, but it is some pockets, as you say, that are facing the music as I type.  That goes back to my statement on making PE more mandatory and more than just rolling out the balls. Putting more weight classes during the day, which would solve the issues when I kid will choose work or AAU ball, instead of staying after school to train.

Again, I want to end with CMS or any other Counties do not need to offer 100,000.  They need to make it where a coach can work smarter, not harder.  

The one thing SC started with a few years ago and I know Texas has this also.  That 4th period of the day was an Athletic Period.  All the football coaches had 4th-period planning.  They were able to lift weights with all the coaches available and also go out and practice in the spring before school was out.  So everything was done.  Kids had a life after school and so did coaches.  The Texas High School I visited had this for ALL their sports!!!  The track team was at practice, baseball was at practice etc. and the kids are getting on the bus, you would not have coaches taking kids home every day and using their gas money and time

So it is ways to make it better without more money.  I believe coaches and especially their wives would love time back first. At your point about NO CMS jobs being OPEN.  Just because it is filled, doesn't mean you have the right person.  I been around many guys that thought they were ready to be a HC and have not put the time in as an assistant.  And when I make that statement, I mean while you are an assistant, a coach like you want to move up to the next level.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t read all the comments so I may miss some points but trust me guys.. coaches in CMS don’t have it bad. Most are not teaching full loads... and most teach weight lifting classes with their players and other sports players in those classes. 100% the bottom line is the money. That’s the main reason a coach leaves Charlotte to go to a small town in SC. Outside of Dutchfork... school for school athlete for athlete.... it ain’t close guys NC is becoming a hotbed. Our in state universities can’t win big simply because our top kids are choosing to go away to the big time SEC type schools.... has nothing to do with coaches leaving. And as far as coaches leaving... there will never be a shortage of coaching talent in Charlotte because there will never be a shortage of player talent in Charlotte. CMS certainly need to pay coaches and ADs more but trust me... your top sports schools CMS find ways to lessen daytime responsibilities for their coaches. Don’t believe the hype .... mostly about the $$$... and I believe if there is a market for you to get it... go get it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZBV, I agree money is the main reason they jump but it is not always just the pay check.  I think hitting twenty years opens their eyes to eventual double dipping and double retirement.  Also, agree the talent level in Charlotte metro is ridiculous and that is a huge draw.

Knotts left with thirty years but he will tell you the quality of football life is light years from what you have available in CMS and the system works with you more often than against you.  A school or system that has autonomy in determining how they want to run their program, like Kannapolis or Richmond, allows them to customize things much more than in a large system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1whoknows

it is not taxed 50 percent!!!. 

My coaching supplement has never been taxed at 50%.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrigley, I actually like the Dead Periods. I think it refreshes the coaches and the kids to be able to get away in the summer because our seasons are so long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's is why SC and Texas are different animals.  Because it is towns that shut down to watch "Friday Night Lights"  It is also why UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF cannot be a consistent player in football.  People must care!!!

One reason that kids go out of state to play is because we have people in NC who preach to the kids to go out of state. I see this on FB sites all the time. NC Preps is the worse. I guarantees you that SC, FL, TX, OK, etc. do not do this. They preach for their kids to stay in state. The reason why NCSU, NC, Duke, WF get most of their players from out of state is because we send ours away.

NC HS players are as good as those in the other states and how much their HC makes or how large their stadiums are. Most of the coaches are hard working dedicated men who are outstanding coaches. If they were not, they would not be successful in other states.

Plus, like I said before when I was in Cabarrus County I made as much as the top head FB coaches because I also taught DE outside school hours.

The top teaching salary with a masters (I got this from a scale off the internet) is over $63,000. With a local teacher supplement and a coaching supplement it is in the $70 + range. So, if I was still there teaching and coaching along with my DE pay,  I would be making more than the top paying HC in SC.

My point is that money was never an issue the entire number of years I have been in this profession.

Plus, as someone pointed out if you are paid by the parents then they can have you fired whereas if you teach and you are fired you still have a job. I enjoyed teaching  weight lifting classes for 3 periods a day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Glenn said:

The top teaching salary with a masters (I got this from a scale off the internet) is over $63,000. With a local teacher supplement and a coaching supplement it is in the $70 + range. So, if I was still there teaching and coaching along with my DE pay,  I would be making more than the top paying HC in SC.

The highest paid HC in SC has a base of just over $108k.  That does not include the weekly playoff play as they go through the post season.

Did you do the Drivers Ed classes during non school hours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, btango said:

ZBV, I agree money is the main reason they jump but it is not always just the pay check.  I think hitting twenty years opens their eyes to eventual double dipping and double retirement.  Also, agree the talent level in Charlotte metro is ridiculous and that is a huge draw.

Knotts left with thirty years but he will tell you the quality of football life is light years from what you have available in CMS and the system works with you more often than against you.  A school or system that has autonomy in determining how they want to run their program, like Kannapolis or Richmond, allows them to customize things much more than in a large system.

BTango , the double dipping still falls under money for me. That’s huge when you can look at what you can potentially bump your retirement to by jumping across the border. I have also heard about the fewer rules and football coaches can run their programs without looking over their shoulders..so I would agree they cater to athletics more At the same token B... I have tons of colleges that come into my office and vent that it’s hard to recruit SC or surrounding areas because kids just don’t have the dag on grades. I may be wrong.. but I don’t see a whole lot of SC high schools posting 10-18 football signings on signing day like a Vance, MC, Hough, MP.. etc. again, I could be wrong. Maybe They do, but I don’t hear of the large signing classes from these high schools. Now the one area that SC blows us out the water... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT is in the facilities area!! I read somewhere that one SC town charges an extra penny tax or something like that and all of that go to upgrading athletic facilities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not forget that Charlotte is a great area to live in. Many of these coaches have dual income families and the job opportunities for the spouse is very high. You can go make more $$ in Richmond but there is no B of A or Wells around and I have to think that plays a part as well.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you do the Drivers Ed classes during non school hours?

Yes. However, I did drive home school and private school kids during the day when I retired the first time when I was in Cabarrus County. Plus the fact that I made more than had I worked for a private driving school. I could work before school (my morning classes were always full of kids who had other things to do after school which was great for athletes), after school (out of season), Saturdays and holidays. No Sundays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Glenn said:

1whoknows

it is not taxed 50 percent!!!. 

My coaching supplement has never been taxed at 50%.

 

 

I agree. Mine was never taxed 50% either.

Also, I work in the school system and don't know a single teacher that is a 12 month employee. I am because I am in maintenance, but my wife (English teacher) is a 10 month. I am vested with state and did it in 10 years. that depends on date of hire.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZBVANCE. You said "I have also heard about the fewer rules and football coaches can run their programs without looking over their shoulders". Could you explain this more in detail. Exactly what rules are you referring to. I will have to say that I have never felt that I had the need to look over my shoulder and I have coached for many, many years. Perhaps there are things that I am unaware of or missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZBVANCE posted. I have tons of colleges that come into my office and vent that it’s hard to recruit SC or surrounding areas because kids just don’t have the dag on grades. I may be wrong.. but I don’t see a whole lot of SC high schools posting 10-18 football signings on signing day like a Vance, MC, Hough, MP.. etc. again, I could be wrong.

I was talking to Coach Ayers at Wofford about the same thing. He told me that he had a very difficult time getting the SC kids into Wofford because they did not qualify. I have no problem with the counties who have a 2.0 gpa rule. It makes us coaches do a better job of making sure our players do what they need to do to stay qualified. The only thing I do not like is the fact that most systems do not have this qualifying rule which to me creates an uneven playing field. I would be interested in knowing what systems have this rule. The only ones I know are Guilford, CM, Alamance-Burlington, and I think Monroe. It is great to develop outstanding FB players but it is even greater to develop outstanding students.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1whoknows

The one thing SC started with a few years ago and I know Texas has this also.  That 4th period of the day was an Athletic Period.  All the football coaches had 4th-period planning.  They were able to lift weights with all the coaches available and also go out and practice in the spring before school was out.  So everything was done.  Kids had a life after school and so did coaches.  The Texas High School I visited had this for ALL their sports!!!  The track team was at practice, baseball was at practice etc. and the kids are getting on the bus, you would not have coaches taking kids home every day and using their gas money and time  

I love this part of the curriculum planning. Are you saying that each HS provides free transportation to practice during the non school days and to home after practice? One great thing about Guilford County is that athletes can take WL class every semester except the semester that they take freshman H&PE. Even then they filter the athletes into WL classes during the day. One reason EG has made great strides in the past 3 years in the fact that when Lance Sockwell (former WCU player and HS FB coach) replaced the former principal (who was not a huge athletic supporter) he made it possible for our athletes to be able to do this. Even though it is allowed to happen the former principal would never allow it. Many of our athletes are 2 and 3 sports athletes and they do not have time to lift after school and doing this in class makes this possible. It develops better athletes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn, I think the idea of fourth period weight or spring practice was that the student athlete would finish their day during the off-season the same time that school is complete allowing them to ride ride the school bus.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Glenn said:

ZBVANCE. You said "I have also heard about the fewer rules and football coaches can run their programs without looking over their shoulders". Could you explain this more in detail. Exactly what rules are you referring to. I will have to say that I have never felt that I had the need to look over my shoulder and I have coached for many, many years. Perhaps there are things that I am unaware of or missed.

Glenn, I am speaking of simple rules that get many CMS coaches in trouble every year such as contact rules... tons of online classes that head coaches have to take... Spring ball games.. etc

NC is head and shoulders above most districts when it comes to player safety and educating their coaches. Some coaches see that as great while other are like man I am tired of them adding more classes... I just want to coach ball! Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If im not mistaken the 2.0 GPA is statewide. lso kids up here have to pass 3/4 of the classes taken and can not fail 2 core classes

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul, the 2.0 gpa is not a state rule unless it was implemented for this season. Most systems still use the pass 3 out  of 4. They can pass with a D. I would be interested in how many NC systems use the 2.0 gpa rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZBVANCE. Thanks for the feedback. Are the classes you speak of the ones required by The National Federation? If so, I think they are a national requirement. If they are not, I am sure they will be soon.  I actually think that those required classes are a good thing. They force us to revisit areas such as concussions, heat, etc. Most of them are a one time deal. The concussion course has to be retaken every year. In Guilford County we have to be certified in CPR and get this renewed every year. We are not required to take many others but can take them and receive a special National Federation Certification if we choose to do so. They are free. I agree with you on the spring practice rules we now have to use. I actually thought that most people agreed with me on having 10 days of contact and a spring game, but found out I was in the minority. I do like the dead periods and the time constraints because we all know that some coaches would keep the kids out there for 4 hours if they could and do it in the heat of the day to toughen them up. We also cannot practice between certain hours because of the heat of the day. Our practices and workouts are in the morning from 8:00 - 10:30. I think if we chose to practice in the afternoon we could not start until 5:00 PM. Safety first always.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2019 at 11:46 PM, Glenn said:

1whoknows

it is not taxed 50 percent!!!. 

My coaching supplement has never been taxed at 50%.

 

 

Are you a certified teacher, teaching daily? It is not exactly 50 percent, I just rounded it out, but if you are a LAY coach, your check gets tax regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a certified teacher for 35 years. I am now a non certified retired teacher who is paid on the same scale as all the other certified and non certified coached in Guilford County. I have never been taxed at anywhere near 50 percent in any county I have coached in. I was in VA for 2 years as a certified teacher and I was never taxed at 50 percent there either. None of the LEA's I have taught or coached in taxed the coaching supplement at that rate and none had a separate supplement scale for certified, lay, or non certified coaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on circumstances and the way income is paid the tax rate can vary.  $60,000 per year in NC would equate to about 24% in total taxes for a single person with the standard deduction.  If that person receives a one time bonus payment depending on when it is paid, manner upon which it is paid, and how it is calculated the total taxes could be much higher when subtracted out but will be refunded upon filing their tax return.  I have seen a person as I just described having closer to 40% taken out but it worked out on the refund.  Note that was about two decades ago.

Just a few facts...A person making $1.2 million per year in taxable income would pay over 42% in taxes.  $10 million would be 44.5% in NC while in California they would pay just over 52% due to their state tax being 8% higher.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I made $1.2 million coaching I would gladly pay the 42%. Actually, my supplement is close to that. LOL!!! I just had to add that. I think that our coaches earn far less than minimum wage. One time I was going to do a time study and calculate our hourly wage but never did because it was not that important to me, because I do not coach because of the money.  I did go back to my income tax files and looked the information up and the amount withheld for state, federal, medicare, and SS was nowhere even close to 50%. It was actually less than the 24% mentioned. The S & F tax liability was almost half of the total tax, SS and medicare liability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn, only count the football coaching stipend when doing the per hour income and only count the hours to football.  Do not count the pay that any teacher gets because you both finish your day on lady bell for that income they just go home without a coaching stipend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since I no longer teach (I have not taught in 12 years) I only get paid a supplement (stipend) so this is what I am using to calculated this on. I only count time spent on the practice field, game field, meetings (coaches and team), transporting kids, watching video and other things I do involving our players. I do not count the time spent at the youth camp we have or staying to see our MS play (since they use our game field) or time I spend going to clinics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Glenn said:

Since I no longer teach (I have not taught in 12 years) I only get paid a supplement (stipend) so this is what I am using to calculated this on. I only count time spent on the practice field, game field, meetings (coaches and team), transporting kids, watching video and other things I do involving our players. I do not count the time spent at the youth camp we have or staying to see our MS play (since they use our game field) or time I spend going to clinics.

How much is your stipend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am on the same scale as all other FB coaches in Guilford County who are at the maximum because of years experience. We are also paid for the pre-season from Aug. 1 to the first game in a separate check. At EG we are also paid for playoff games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CMS pays a single stipend regardless of experience / years in the system or how far the team goes in the playoffs.  Believe me, there are coaches making less than minimum wage, way less, for the time they put into football and the stipend they receive for it.  

Can any coaches break down their hours on a game week, non game week, preseason practice, summer practice?  Do not include time during the school day or a free / planning period as the school day is covered by the teacher pay.

I know many would do it for free but that is not the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every system I have ever worked for had a scale based on years of experience. I will try to calculate the number of hours I spend each year on coaching FB. Since I am retired from teaching that is not an issue.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I calculate that I make $6 an hour coaching FB.This does not include the number of hours I spend doing research and going to clinics to improve my coaching techniques. Things that will make my kids better players through practice drills, and techniques.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is $100,000 too much to pay a high school football coach. Not if the school system is willing to pay it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that any school system pays this amount. Most of the time the extra money comes from outside donators.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SC, GA, and Texas have head football coaches making that through the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff Simpson, Ex Buford High School Coach made $174,000.00 during his tenure. One of the most successful coaches in Ga High School History. In 12 years record 164-12 and won 7 State Titles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SC, GA, and Texas have head football coaches making that through the system.

My question is are all head coaches in these states paid the same amount by the state. Both states (NC and VA) I have coached in had a basic teacher salary as well as a local coaching supplement. In NC the basic salary is a state teacher salary. In VA each county has its own teacher salary schedule. Are you saying that the state or counties you mentioned have a different salary scale for coaches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×