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Is $100,000 to much to pay a high school football coach?

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You are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for your services period.  Yeah we can get into the philosophical debate about education and how teachers in the school should be paid more and yes that is the case and I am sure we all can agree. I had the conversation today at a business meeting about cost and who sets the level for how much things are. “It cost what it cost” exceptional talent in any occupation gets paid exponentially more in most circumstances. It all goes back to what is the area of emphasis by leadership funnels significant funding.....no different than our political system...

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To me i dont see a problem with paying a coach that much to just coach. Football is a high revenue sport so why not pay the person bringing in all the revenue. 

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Money is all relative. You use the $100k measuring stick but the bar is different for everyone. Some people think $100k a year makes you a rich person. Others would not get out of bed for that salary.

Personally I would have zero issues with paying any educator a 6 figure salary provided they could demonstrate their worth but there in lies the problem. Much easier to demonstrate that in the private sector.

I have seen some HC'S worth a $100k or more because of their larger effect on the school and community. I have also seen plenty that were barely worth minimum wage. 

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I wonder why people never question the pay of administrators or superintendents it’s always coaches...the same coaches who are working all year long including the summer time while others are on vacation or working other jobs earning more than said coaches! 🤔

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1 hour ago, WiseOne88 said:

I wonder why people never question the pay of administrators or superintendents it’s always coaches...the same coaches who are working all year long including the summer time while others are on vacation or working other jobs earning more than said coaches! 🤔

I think the answer to that is pretty simple and its called a scoreboard. Wins and losses are easy to quantify and they are in your face every Friday night during the season. Graduation rates and test scores can be quantified but unless they are of the charts bad they rarely get much attention.

I think its pretty fair to say that for most of us who post on these types of forums we have a slightly biased view. Most of us played, in some cases coached and most often had kids who played. We are beyond passionate about the sport and understand the value of great coaches. To this day I owe a ton of  the credit for any success I have had in the business world to two coaches. I dont believe in natural born leadership qualities. I believe that you see great ones and try to duplicate what they do. Great coaching has that kind of impact.

I read the editorial and what the author misses is impact that becomes hard quantify. I will use the two examples that I have the most familiarity with-

When Brand took over at Vance that program was laughable in many ways. AB didnt just build a football program he instilled   energy, passion and a certain edge to a school that needed it. That is a special skill set and should be paid accordingly no matter what the profession. AB would be a succes in anything he chose to do......he just decided to use his talent coaching kids at a game.

A guy like Palmieri takes a program from scratch and builds it into a national brand. I travel for a living and wear my Creek gear just about everywhere. Cant tell you how many people on the East Coast recognize the name or ask about the program. Mallard Creek operates on a shoe string budget and yet travel to places like Hoover, AL and will play on ESPN. How much is that guy worth to a school. What does it look like when he leaves??   Go look at Indy for a snap shot.

Its easy to look at a P@L or cash statement and make an educated guess how much a COO or CEO is worth. Much harder to look at the impact of a person who can change the direction of a kids life or a high school. 

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7 hours ago, Wrigley said:

I think the answer to that is pretty simple and its called a scoreboard. Wins and losses are easy to quantify and they are in your face every Friday night during the season. Graduation rates and test scores can be quantified but unless they are of the charts bad they rarely get much attention.

I think its pretty fair to say that for most of us who post on these types of forums we have a slightly biased view. Most of us played, in some cases coached and most often had kids who played. We are beyond passionate about the sport and understand the value of great coaches. To this day I owe a ton of  the credit for any success I have had in the business world to two coaches. I dont believe in natural born leadership qualities. I believe that you see great ones and try to duplicate what they do. Great coaching has that kind of impact.

I read the editorial and what the author misses is impact that becomes hard quantify. I will use the two examples that I have the most familiarity with-

When Brand took over at Vance that program was laughable in many ways. AB didnt just build a football program he instilled   energy, passion and a certain edge to a school that needed it. That is a special skill set and should be paid accordingly no matter what the profession. AB would be a succes in anything he chose to do......he just decided to use his talent coaching kids at a game.

A guy like Palmieri takes a program from scratch and builds it into a national brand. I travel for a living and wear my Creek gear just about everywhere. Cant tell you how many people on the East Coast recognize the name or ask about the program. Mallard Creek operates on a shoe string budget and yet travel to places like Hoover, AL and will play on ESPN. How much is that guy worth to a school. What does it look like when he leaves??   Go look at Indy for a snap shot.

Its easy to look at a P@L or cash statement and make an educated guess how much a COO or CEO is worth. Much harder to look at the impact of a person who can change the direction of a kids life or a high school. 

Couldn't said it better myself 

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7 hours ago, Wrigley said:

I think the answer to that is pretty simple and its called a scoreboard. Wins and losses are easy to quantify and they are in your face every Friday night during the season. Graduation rates and test scores can be quantified but unless they are of the charts bad they rarely get much attention.

I think its pretty fair to say that for most of us who post on these types of forums we have a slightly biased view. Most of us played, in some cases coached and most often had kids who played. We are beyond passionate about the sport and understand the value of great coaches. To this day I owe a ton of  the credit for any success I have had in the business world to two coaches. I dont believe in natural born leadership qualities. I believe that you see great ones and try to duplicate what they do. Great coaching has that kind of impact.

I read the editorial and what the author misses is impact that becomes hard quantify. I will use the two examples that I have the most familiarity with-

When Brand took over at Vance that program was laughable in many ways. AB didnt just build a football program he instilled   energy, passion and a certain edge to a school that needed it. That is a special skill set and should be paid accordingly no matter what the profession. AB would be a succes in anything he chose to do......he just decided to use his talent coaching kids at a game.

A guy like Palmieri takes a program from scratch and builds it into a national brand. I travel for a living and wear my Creek gear just about everywhere. Cant tell you how many people on the East Coast recognize the name or ask about the program. Mallard Creek operates on a shoe string budget and yet travel to places like Hoover, AL and will play on ESPN. How much is that guy worth to a school. What does it look like when he leaves??   Go look at Indy for a snap shot.

Its easy to look at a P@L or cash statement and make an educated guess how much a COO or CEO is worth. Much harder to look at the impact of a person who can change the direction of a kids life or a high school. 

Couldn't of said it better myself 

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Can someone explain how salaries for coaches work in SC?  We see coaches leave NC for more money down there, but I’m never clear how it is that they get paid so much.  Does the legislature down there allow systems the flexibility to pay coaches that much or does some other source supplement their income?  Do they have contracts that guarantee so much with bonuses for production, like college coaches, or are their salaries structured in some other way to get to six figures?

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Salaries are set by the state in SC. But, each county or district can supplement coaches income how they see fit. So some areas pay great and other areas pay not so great. I know that a friend of mine got a job in SC that made him the AD and HFC where he almost doubled his salary and no teaching responsibilities. SC just values football more then NC. They make it happen for the coaches to have the resources they need to develop students and the program. That's it. But, you better win or you gone. Look at Hal Capps example. 

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If the program is bringing in revenue to warrant the salary, then by all means.  As far as administration goes, there is a lot that goes into being an administrator.  A coach is responsible for his players, an administrator is responsible for all lives in the building, at all times.  Their pay is warranted.

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100K sounds about right for a year long position with the expectations tied to it. The problem is that everyone else does it for so much less with other responsibilities out of need eek out a living  and other than some administration no one every gets paid their worth in education.

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11 minutes ago, RaiderDebater said:

If the program is bringing in revenue to warrant the salary, then by all means.  As far as administration goes, there is a lot that goes into being an administrator.  A coach is responsible for his players, an administrator is responsible for all lives in the building, at all times.  Their pay is warranted.

Warranted provided the results reflect the pay. I dont know what the oversight looks like so its hard for me to speak knowledgeably about the subject.

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5 minutes ago, Fumblerooski said:

100K sounds about right for a year long position with the expectations tied to it. The problem is that everyone else does it for so much less with other responsibilities out of need eek out a living  and other than some administration no one every gets paid their worth in education.

Amen, brotha.

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Just now, Wrigley said:

Warranted provided the results reflect the pay. I dont know what the oversight looks like so its hard for me to speak knowledgeably about the subject.

Oh, absolutely.  As with coaching, if you as an administrator (I can only speak for high school) are not meeting expectations for an extended period of time, then a change needs to be made.  Education is a results-driven business.  It is a business, make no mistake about it.  Its just as cut-throat as coaching.

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Not every coach in SC makes that much. Head coaches in the smaller schools do not. Assistant coaches do not. Even fewer of the other sports coaches make that much. If a HC does not teach then his money comes from somewhere other than the state. It could all come from the boosters club. That is why if you do not win you can be fired. I will say that when I was in Cabarrus County teaching and coaching plus teaching Driver Education before school, after school, on Saturdays and holidays as well as during the summer my salary was close to what they (SC HC) were making back during that time. Some administrators complained that I was making more than them. My boss (who was an associate superintendent) reminded them that if they wanted to work from 5 AM to 9 PM they could make that much as well. Coaches put in the time so why should they not be compensated. In most cases more than they are. I will also agree that teachers do not make anywhere what they are worth. My wife was a Kindergarten teacher and I will tell you that she put far more time into her job (night and weekends) than I did in my teaching job. Her salary should have been doubled. When I see adults come up to her and tell her how much they appreciate her for what she did for them when they were inn her class it makes me realize just how really valuable she was. My son and  daughter loved school all the way from k-college, all because of the influence their Kindergarten had on them.

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I would also like to pose a question on this subject. If every high school in NC payed its HC $100,000.00 a year where would you suggest this money come from? With colleges it is a total different situation. The support clubs (Rams Club, Wolfpack Club, etc.) supplements the amount over what the state pays, plus the ticket sales, as well as TV revenue, etc. These things are not a part of the HS scene. Very few high school football programs generate that much gate revenue. So, in this day and age when the state paints the bleak picture it paints when the schools ask for more money for teacher raises as well as classroom supplies and school maintenance and construction, where will this money come from. One huge thing that sticks out in my mind was several years ago when they used the term Education Lottery to get this passed it was touted as extra money for education. They forgot to tell us that the money that they were already giving education was not going to be supplemented with this Education Lottery. Instead, it was going to be replaced by this new found source of money. That meant we were no better off than we were before the lottery.  My main question was where did the original money go. Now we are back where we started from. Had it supplemented the existing $$$$ it would have solved all our problems. Now, give me your solutions. BTW until June 17 I have far too much time on my hands. After June 17 you will not have to endure my epistles as much. If I had only taken typing.

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48 minutes ago, Glenn said:

Not every coach in SC makes that much. Head coaches in the smaller schools do not. Assistant coaches do not. Even fewer of the other sports coaches make that much. If a HC does not teach then his money comes from somewhere other than the state. It could all come from the boosters club. That is why if you do not win you can be fired. I will say that when I was in Cabarrus County teaching and coaching plus teaching Driver Education before school, after school, on Saturdays and holidays as well as during the summer my salary was close to what they (SC HC) were making back during that time. Some administrators complained that I was making more than them. My boss (who was an associate superintendent) reminded them that if they wanted to work from 5 AM to 9 PM they could make that much as well. Coaches put in the time so why should they not be compensated. In most cases more than they are. I will also agree that teachers do not make anywhere what they are worth. My wife was a Kindergarten teacher and I will tell you that she put far more time into her job (night and weekends) than I did in my teaching job. Her salary should have been doubled. When I see adults come up to her and tell her how much they appreciate her for what she did for them when they were inn her class it makes me realize just how really valuable she was. My son and  daughter loved school all the way from k-college, all because of the influence their Kindergarten had on them.

That’s one of my biggest peeves. People that count other people’s pockets. 

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1 hour ago, Glenn said:

I would also like to pose a question on this subject. If every high school in NC payed its HC $100,000.00 a year where would you suggest this money come from? With colleges it is a total different situation. The support clubs (Rams Club, Wolfpack Club, etc.) supplements the amount over what the state pays, plus the ticket sales, as well as TV revenue, etc. These things are not a part of the HS scene. Very few high school football programs generate that much gate revenue. So, in this day and age when the state paints the bleak picture it paints when the schools ask for more money for teacher raises as well as classroom supplies and school maintenance and construction, where will this money come from. One huge thing that sticks out in my mind was several years ago when they used the term Education Lottery to get this passed it was touted as extra money for education. They forgot to tell us that the money that they were already giving education was not going to be supplemented with this Education Lottery. Instead, it was going to be replaced by this new found source of money. That meant we were no better off than we were before the lottery.  My main question was where did the original money go. Now we are back where we started from. Had it supplemented the existing $$$$ it would have solved all our problems. Now, give me your solutions. BTW until June 17 I have far too much time on my hands. After June 17 you will not have to endure my epistles as much. If I had only taken typing.

Formulate it just like SC. Let the community decide how important that position is to them and if the booster club or deep pocketed supporters want to get together and throw some cash and other perks on top of the base salary have at it. It would be the only way you could finance it. Would it be a case of have and have nots?? Sure...but in many ways you are already there. You think Hough is getting all those transfers because Matt Jenkins is so charismatic??

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One thing that is fairly constant no matter where you are at or what you do... people think they are not paid enough and that other people are paid too much.  Maybe that’s 2 things but you get my point.

In a market driven society... most people make what they are worth. Others go into career fields that will never be paid as much because their job field does not produce profit. Profit drives salaries typically.  If a coach can command a 100k salary... good for ‘em. Somebody in that community wants to win bad enough to find a way to pony up for their guy. As others have mentioned, it’s going to come from deep pocketed boosters or a booster club. If somebody is putting up the coin, they get a say on hiring & firing. Results will be insisted upon. It’s just the way the world works.

We ( many of us) probably disagree about who is & isn’t  under or overpaid. That’s fine.

I’ll say this... I never in my life have done a job better or worse based on how much I got paid.

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I’ll say this... I never in my life have done a job better or worse based on how much I got paid.

 Amen Brother Conner P. Me neither. I have indicated on several occasions that I love what I am doing and I love where I am doing it. At this point in my life I would not leave EG  for any amount of money. People think I am crazy but that is the truth. Why would I want tio leave why home, friends and family to have to start over? Now, if I was in my 20's - 50's I probably would, but not now. I once was money driven, but not now. I am happiness driven. Let's get one thing straight in that I am not critical towards those who do or their reasons why. If I lived along the border of the states that we border and a higher paying job became available that was within 30 minutes of my home I probably would go once I got my 30 years in NC. I did that once when I drove to a small HS north of Danville for 1 1/2 years teaching and coaching FB but the hour drive became a dreaded thing that I did not look forward to everyday, so I quit after the first semester and found a job back at NE Guilford coaching FB. At that point my teaching days were over. I have never regretted that decision. 

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You think Hough is getting all those transfers because Matt Jenkins is so charismatic??

Transfers. That brings up another interesting topic. You mean he is not? LOL.

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17 hours ago, Glenn said:

 So, in this day and age when the state paints the bleak picture it paints when the schools ask for more money for teacher raises as well as classroom supplies and school maintenance and construction, where will this money come from. 

Getting rid of the people that say this nonsense would be the first step.

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Fumblerooski, I agree with you. I actually think a lot of the public agree with the county commisioners. Especially those people who do not see the need for these things. In Alamance County most of the people seem to be against building a new HS to alleviate the overcrowding at EA and SA. They want these schools to bring in more mobile units. They do not understand that this will not solve the problem that is going to just continue to get worse. So, you can imagine that these same people are against teacher raises  so coaches raises are totally off the table as far as they are concerned. They seem to be against anything EDUCATION related.

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Glenn... How can you say “most” when Alamance just passed a $160 million bond to build that very high school? Your thought process on this specific issue is way off track. I’m very close to this situation & would be more than happy to discuss it with you off forum. 

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All I know is what I was told by some guys (relatives) in those districts. The only time I read the Burlington paper is during FB season. If I am wrong then I am happy I am wrong. When was this bond passed and by what percentage. I ask because my sources may have been outdated. I do know that they were very skeptical that any of this was going to pass. I think I talked to them last summer. My faith has been restored in the good people (and relatives) in Alamance County. When will the new HS be completed? Will it include all the athletic facilities? Also, where will it be located? When I was at Mt. Pleasaant HS (Cabarrus County) they built a new MPHS on 110 acres of land. They built the school, FB stadium, 8 lane track, field house, practice field, baseball stadium, softball stadium and put an automated field watering system on all those fields. That was nice. I know that in many cases they build the school and expect the boosters to do the rest. One nice thing was that the residences at the Prison Farm dug out all the seats on both sides of the horse shoe shaped stadium (it was built in a former pond) and I saw them doing it everyday out my classroom window.

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On 6/4/2019 at 9:34 AM, RaiderDebater said:

If the program is bringing in revenue to warrant the salary, then by all means.  As far as administration goes, there is a lot that goes into being an administrator.  A coach is responsible for his players, an administrator is responsible for all lives in the building, at all times.  Their pay is warranted.

Football is not the only sport that gets paid in SC.  Checked the salary base and you will see a few coaches making pretty good salaries, maybe not 100, 000 but pretty good.  I mean the Assisting Coaches Salaries at some of these schools are more than the HC in NC.  Some are making 6,000 plus.  I know Tommy Knotts was paying his OC 10,000.  So if your Teaching salary is 50 thousand plus, which is the case in York and where Knotts is.  Another 10 thousand would put you in the HIgh 60.

The money is GREAT!!!! But as Mr. Knotts said, it is more about NOT TEACHING a class!!!!.  CMS is about the only system that still will not fully let you teach out of your certification PLUS teach a FULL LOAD!!!!  So if you a Math Teacher, and want to teach your weight room, it will not happen in CMS.  Other systems let that happen. So you might have a teacher that does not coach ANY SPORT, teaching your Athletes. 

The plus to CMS is that you will coach some PLAYERS!!! but it is a reason why Newsome left? It is a reason why Mooresville and Richmond County are a few of the best opportunities in NC to make a little money and find a way to get all your kids in the weight classes.

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1 hour ago, 1whoknows said:

Football is not the only sport that gets paid in SC.  Checked the salary base and you will see a few coaches making pretty good salaries, maybe not 100, 000 but pretty good.  I mean the Assisting Coaches Salaries at some of these schools are more than the HC in NC.  Some are making 6,000 plus.  I know Tommy Knotts was paying his OC 10,000.  So if your Teaching salary is 50 thousand plus, which is the case in York and where Knotts is.  Another 10 thousand would put you in the HIgh 60.

The money is GREAT!!!! But as Mr. Knotts said, it is more about NOT TEACHING a class!!!!.  CMS is about the only system that still will not fully let you teach out of your certification PLUS teach a FULL LOAD!!!!  So if you a Math Teacher, and want to teach your weight room, it will not happen in CMS.  Other systems let that happen. So you might have a teacher that does not coach ANY SPORT, teaching your Athletes. 

The plus to CMS is that you will coach some PLAYERS!!! but it is a reason why Newsome left? It is a reason why Mooresville and Richmond County are a few of the best opportunities in NC to make a little money and find a way to get all your kids in the weight classes.

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

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1 minute ago, RaiderDebater said:

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

You are correct about the comparison in salary!!!  Did not know he was History full time!!!

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39 minutes ago, RaiderDebater said:

I stand corrected. Castellano did not have a full slate. 

He does, WINNING!!😀 So you are correct.

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:29 PM, Wrigley said:

Formulate it just like SC. Let the community decide how important that position is to them and if the booster club or deep pocketed supporters want to get together and throw some cash and other perks on top of the base salary have at it. 

The minute private investors have that much say in the salary of a coach it equals trouble. That opens the door for all kind of crap that kills football teams. "I pay your salary so I expect little Timmy to be on the field a lot more!"  

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15 hours ago, RaiderDebater said:

And what you make in Richmond County is comparable to 100K in SC because the area is so underdeveloped. Castellano made 77K there, but was also a History teacher, full-time. 

true, but his teaching salary was at least half that or a little more. He wasn't making 77 to coach only. The top five highest paid coaches in the mountains all make 65+ but they all teach a full schedule. 

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1 hour ago, Paul Graham said:

The minute private investors have that much say in the salary of a coach it equals trouble. That opens the door for all kind of crap that kills football teams. "I pay your salary so I expect little Timmy to be on the field a lot more!"  

Yup...people who invest their $$ typically are looking for some kind of return on that investment.  That said,  you want $100k salaries, beautiful weight rooms and college like stadiums the money is coming from somewhere other than the taxpayer. How do you think they do it in TX and other states?

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So here is what I don't get and I am sure it's because I have never been that close to it. If I am the football coach at let's say Irmo and I have 60-80 kids in the program and 6 or 7 assistants what is it that I do all day if I am not teaching? What about January- May. 

Someone walk me through a day in the life?

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18 hours ago, Wrigley said:

So here is what I don't get and I am sure it's because I have never been that close to it. If I am the football coach at let's say Irmo and I have 60-80 kids in the program and 6 or 7 assistants what is it that I do all day if I am not teaching? What about January- May. 

Someone walk me through a day in the life?

Contact Coach Knotts and he will let you know!!! and Why he is still winning Championships!!!!  And actually, Irmo and Knotts have about 12 or 13 assistants, maybe more, that do teach all day.

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One of the DF assistants is also the assistant AD.  Half a day teaching the last half athletic department.  Athletic department secretary has her office right beside the football coaches office / locker room.

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20 hours ago, Paul Graham said:

true, but his teaching salary was at least half that or a little more. He wasn't making 77 to coach only. The top five highest paid coaches in the mountains all make 65+ but they all teach a full schedule. 

You are correct.  If you are a 12-month employee, that coach in NC, you could be between 70-80,000 if you have some years in the bank.  So you are talking about a 25,000 pay raise.  If Coach Knotts was a 12-month employee while in Charlotte, that is about what you looking at.  If you want to keep the coaches in CMS, give them 12 months and make them cut the fields like these other counties.  And at least 2 classes a day out for 4.  Put all their kids in the weight room, so you do not have to WORK FOR FREE afterschool to lift the kids that don't have weight room during the day.  

Those you do not teach and coach DAILY in a public school system do not understand the differences between schools and counties.  We all just want to be on the same playing field. Also, you have to love to coach, because if you just a regular teacher, you can basically stay afterschool Monday-Thursday and tutor your own kids and make more money than coaches and it is not taxed 50 percent!!!.  That is right, the coaches pay is considered a LUXURY TAX.  So if you make 6,000 for coaching football, you get half, like ALIMONY!!!!😀 On your check. 

Now while we are on the HCs, the question should be; why be an assistant coach in CMS.  They have not gotten a raise and they take half of their money also.  You are better off not teaching and being a NON-faculty coach because you will get more on your check because it is tax regularly. And they definitely can make more money in a month, working after school for an HOUR in a month, than coaching until December spending 3-4 hours.

So the next time some of the fans want to yell from the stands at the coaches, much less some of these youth coaches, BELIEVE me, they are ALL are working for FREE.  And let's not start about having to pick them up and drop them off while their parents are home!!!

Thatis is why coaches NEED, NO CLASSES and 100,000.  Come and spend a day in the world of education and coaching.

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So it sucks, and I get it but in the end for all the negatives much of pay scale comes down to supply and demand. How many open HC jobs in CMS right now? I can think of one. Vance job was filled in 6 days. Big list of candidates for the MC OC spot earlier in the year. 

If it is such a grind and the compensation is so awful....why do guys keep lining up for a shot?

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