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4 minutes ago, NWWatchdog said:

Are you implying that many at the NCHSAA have negative feelings towards charters/parochials/non-boundaried schools (or at least are sympathetic to the legitimate competitive imbalance they have created)?  The NCHSAA and their board have a responsibility to look out for the best interest of their membership.  No one is saying kick charters or non-traditionals out of the association - many are simply calling for them to either have their own playoff classification or to use a more fair model in determining their placement in the current playoff settings (like a multiplier based on population density).  Let's be honest, a charter or an open enrollment magnet in an urban setting (or very close to an urban setting) may only have 300-500 kids, but the number of kids they are drawing from is SIGNIFICANTLY larger.  I'm not even going to get into the recruiting aspect of it - not all non-traditionals recruit.  The ones that do are good enough at it that they don't leave an evidence trail with enough substance for the NCHSAA to be able to take action.  Just as the 4A playoff disparity needs to be addressed (schools with 1500 kids competing against kids with 3200 kids), the non-traditional v. traditional disparity needs to be addressed.

As for the politics of it, the legislators may try to get heavy handed and overstep into the NCHSAA business.  The NCHSAA is tasked with doing the right thing.  If the elected officials act beyond that, that's on them (and could start drawing enough attention to cause voters to rethink some of their ballot choices in the future).  I'm a firm believer in doing the right thing, even if others don't.  Control what you can control - and the NCHSAA can control whether or not they address the obvious problem at hand.

Great Post. I agree 100%.  

 

Honestly, many states have 6 classes. What if we went to 6 classes for playoffs?

1A=Charters

2A=1-500 

3A=501-800

4A=801-1300

5A=1301-1800

6A=1801 and up.

 

Still leave conferences as needed for Geography and travel. But use 6 classes for playoffs. Leave Football model alone.

 

 

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3 hours ago, LarryRandolph said:

Great Post. I agree 100%.  

 

Honestly, many states have 6 classes. What if we went to 6 classes for playoffs?

1A=Charters

2A=1-500 

3A=501-800

4A=801-1300

5A=1301-1800

6A=1801 and up.

 

Still leave conferences as needed for Geography and travel. But use 6 classes for playoffs. Leave Football model alone.

 

 

I am not interested in jumping to six from four for non football sports.  I like the idea of five with 1A being split under the "traditional v non traditional" as I outlined.  There must be a competitive ideology for me to believe in changes.  Equality on the field of play is important but when a sport shows small school teams competing at the top level (in non football playoffs) I do not feel strongly about changing the structure.

If it is charters only go ahead and count me out.  Too many small schools benefitting from neighboring schools.  I would like to see a program next year put in place that every team has to list the school districts represented by the team.  That would provide a blueprint of what is out there.

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3 hours ago, NWWatchdog said:

Are you implying that many at the NCHSAA have negative feelings towards charters/parochials/non-boundaried schools (or at least are sympathetic to the legitimate competitive imbalance they have created)?  The NCHSAA and their board have a responsibility to look out for the best interest of their membership.  No one is saying kick charters or non-traditionals out of the association - many are simply calling for them to either have their own playoff classification or to use a more fair model in determining their placement in the current playoff settings (like a multiplier based on population density).  Let's be honest, a charter or an open enrollment magnet in an urban setting (or very close to an urban setting) may only have 300-500 kids, but the number of kids they are drawing from is SIGNIFICANTLY larger.  I'm not even going to get into the recruiting aspect of it - not all non-traditionals recruit.  The ones that do are good enough at it that they don't leave an evidence trail with enough substance for the NCHSAA to be able to take action.  Just as the 4A playoff disparity needs to be addressed (schools with 1500 kids competing against kids with 3200 kids), the non-traditional v. traditional disparity needs to be addressed.

As for the politics of it, the legislators may try to get heavy handed and overstep into the NCHSAA business.  The NCHSAA is tasked with doing the right thing.  If the elected officials act beyond that, that's on them (and could start drawing enough attention to cause voters to rethink some of their ballot choices in the future).  I'm a firm believer in doing the right thing, even if others don't.  Control what you can control - and the NCHSAA can control whether or not they address the obvious problem at hand.

Many people affilifated with NCHSAA and staff see a competitive imbalance.  How can anyone that has been involved in high school sports in the state for a decade or more not get hit right in the face with it?  There will always be have and have nots but there must be limits.

The phrase I have heard often, which irks me a bit, is that no school should be treated differently than the others.  1A football was a perfect example when they were requested to look at four rounds of football playoffs with their title game held a week earlier.  This would have allowed them to have "their" day and much more autonomy with selecting title game locations and times.  The complaint was they were being treated differently than the other schools.  This coming from the classification that pushed in subdividing, pods, and was complaining about travel and lack of attention on championship weekend.  Their own words are used against them in the charter school battle but I do think that is much different.

One item that was mentioned when charters were discussed a few years ago.  WS Prep (along with Bishop) was really the hot topic but it was made clear they would not fall into a charter section.  That will be a major political battle as well.  Personally,  Forsyth County as a whole is a major issue with their schools size and residency / transfer regulations.  I was told at that time that the NW 1A had issues with "items of interest" with some of their "traditional" school residencies.  I see that as more common now but five to ten years ago it was probably not.  When a 1A school has students from other districts being valuable team members it sets a competitive imbalance which hurts the argument against the true non traditional school.

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4 hours ago, LarryRandolph said:

Which schools?  What was the hardship? I'm just curious.  I don't remember this. 

It was two or three eastern 1A schools.  I will try to find the info and post it.  

Think the hardship was travel related but the change caused some ripple effects.  That is the issue I often see people miss on the realignment complaints.  They are looking micro (their specific area or just their team but you must look macro (state wide).

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Here are two articles and he bills.  The complaint from the NCHSAA was the bill came up for a vote without any communication with them or advising them of the vote.  People with power voted on something they knew very little about or just one component / side of.

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2005/Bills/House/PDF/H1864v4.pdf

 

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2005/Bills/Senate/PDF/S171v2.pdf

 

https://pilotonline.com/sports/high-school/n-c-bill-allows-small-schools-to-form-own-conference/article_63db1daa-acba-5a15-a355-7090692438c9.html

 

https://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/2006/06/13/bill-is-wrong/

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7 hours ago, btango said:

Here are two articles and he bills.  The complaint from the NCHSAA was the bill came up for a vote without any communication with them or advising them of the vote.  People with power voted on something they knew very little about or just one component / side of.

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2005/Bills/House/PDF/H1864v4.pdf

 

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2005/Bills/Senate/PDF/S171v2.pdf

 

https://pilotonline.com/sports/high-school/n-c-bill-allows-small-schools-to-form-own-conference/article_63db1daa-acba-5a15-a355-7090692438c9.html

 

https://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/2006/06/13/bill-is-wrong/

Thanks for that. I just read through those links.  

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7 hours ago, btango said:

Many people affilifated with NCHSAA and staff see a competitive imbalance.  How can anyone that has been involved in high school sports in the state for a decade or more not get hit right in the face with it?  There will always be have and have nots but there must be limits.

The phrase I have heard often, which irks me a bit, is that no school should be treated differently than the others.  1A football was a perfect example when they were requested to look at four rounds of football playoffs with their title game held a week earlier.  This would have allowed them to have "their" day and much more autonomy with selecting title game locations and times.  The complaint was they were being treated differently than the other schools.  This coming from the classification that pushed in subdividing, pods, and was complaining about travel and lack of attention on championship weekend.  Their own words are used against them in the charter school battle but I do think that is much different.

One item that was mentioned when charters were discussed a few years ago.  WS Prep (along with Bishop) was really the hot topic but it was made clear they would not fall into a charter section.  That will be a major political battle as well.  Personally,  Forsyth County as a whole is a major issue with their schools size and residency / transfer regulations.  I was told at that time that the NW 1A had issues with "items of interest" with some of their "traditional" school residencies.  I see that as more common now but five to ten years ago it was probably not.  When a 1A school has students from other districts being valuable team members it sets a competitive imbalance which hurts the argument against the true non traditional school.

 

I get what you are saying, but if a student transfers from Public School A to Public School B for an academic program or magnet program, and the . kids happens to play a sport, to me that's not recruiting like what certain Charter schools do who have no boundaries and no district. 

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35 minutes ago, LarryRandolph said:

 

I get what you are saying, but if a student transfers from Public School A to Public School B for an academic program or magnet program, and the . kids happens to play a sport, to me that's not recruiting like what certain Charter schools do who have no boundaries and no district. 

There will be tough choices to be made.  Do we want the most equal competitive subclass in 1A or do we want to continue with numerous exceptions as are in place now?   For it to work there must be a definitive standard and the decision / regulations must be removed from the LEA.

Note again, I have no issue with student athletes looking at better options!  I do have an issue in 1A sports with schools “loading up” and I think you can look at some of the top athletic programs at “traditional” schools and I do believe there area teams that have several players that make a difference in playoff runs and state titles.

 

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