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Realignment Process Delayed...NC Seeks to Add 5A in 2021

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https://www.highschoolot.com/nchsaa...s3ORjHIliSoRZ8Cobs4WZuPE2K-GOg9uQYs3RAVe87_NA

The next realignment process has been delayed a year. The new conferences will still go into effect in the 2021-2022 school year, this just eliminates the “lame duck year.” I like this because enrollment fluctuates and a school may be 3A size when the realignment figures come out, however when the new conferences actually start 2 years later, enrollment may have dropped to 2A size and they are stuck in 3A for at least 2 years...usually 4. Case in point...Burns...thankfully we were able to move down this year but I digress. Now this might just be a one off...because they are looking to add 5A. They basically already have...but are just calling it “4AA” for now. They have to change the bylaws. But sounds like it’s gonna happen. Just not sure how the classifications are gonna be divided up, or how the playoffs are going to work yet. Should be interesting. The football coaches and AD’s are just going to have to hit the ground running on the scheduling for 2021 and 2022 because of the process being postponed. That’s the only downside to this.

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1 hour ago, Panther2018 said:

so basically it took subdivisions from 1-3a

If 5A is approved next year it will eliminate subdividing across the board. Article has been updated now.

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If 5A is not approved it would be probably be 25/25/25/12.5.12.5. Because 20/30/30/10/10 would be downright ridiculous.

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Yes, I have already heard the 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 model from some inside sources so I could see them moving towards this, and then subdividing 2A through 4A and still having 8 state champions in football with five in all other sports. 

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In my opinion, I do not see the state going from 8 state champions in football to 5.  2 reasons...

 

1.  They do not want their pocket books taking a hit from the reduction of playoff game gates.

2.  If they go 20% across the board they are already subdividing 1A and 4A who are at 20% so why would they not continue to do that if all classifications 20%.  

I for one do not want to see 10 state champions.  Keep it at 8 and the 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 model for the classification model. 2A-4A have subdivided playoffs.

They opened Pandora’s box when they went to 8 and there is no turning back now.

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8 hours ago, burnstweeter said:

If 5A is approved next year it will eliminate subdividing across the board. Article has been updated now.

The article does not state subdividing will go away only that the playoff system “may change.”

 

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1 hour ago, ramheadbut said:

So what you are saying is class 5 A will be Charlotte and Raleigh and 4A-1A is everyone else 

There are schools that are larger than some schools in Wake and Meck so that will be other counties represented in the largest class. This will most likely cause the urban areas to have split conferences with the two largest classes and possibly 3A and the next to largest class.

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11 hours ago, Dawg Dynasty said:

In my opinion, I do not see the state going from 8 state champions in football to 5.  2 reasons...

 

1.  They do not want their pocket books taking a hit from the reduction of playoff game gates.

2.  If they go 20% across the board they are already subdividing 1A and 4A who are at 20% so why would they not continue to do that if all classifications 20%.  

I for one do not want to see 10 state champions.  Keep it at 8 and the 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 model for the classification model. 2A-4A have subdivided playoffs.

They opened Pandora’s box when they went to 8 and there is no turning back now.

Pandora’s Box was opened by the coaches/schools, first for 2001 with 1A and then the other three classes in 2002.

NCHSAA admin does not want to increase championships in football and tried to get 1A and 4A to go to 32 teams / four rounds two years ago for football.  The schools fought against the change and eventually 48 and the first round byes were agreed to.

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So if the 12.5 / 25/ 25/ 25/ 12.5  model is what they are looking at that means that 5A classification will have what 52 schools

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Also the only schools that fits in 5A outside of Charlotte and Raleigh according to last years ADM's( I know this may change) are 

In the East

Hoggard 

Laney

Ashley

Clayton

Jordan

Hillside 

 

In the West 

Hoke

NW Guilford

Richmond

West Forsyth

Pinecrest

Reagan

Lake Norman

Page

Moresville

Cox Mill

Grimsley

 

So if the state goes with this model of 52 teams in 5A what will the conferences look like?  Would be smarter to go 20/20/20/20/20 which gives each classification roughly 83 teams

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how would it fair out with the sandhills conference. would there be teams coming in/out of the conference and  how will it fair out with split conferences

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https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/preps-blog/article229978669.html

Commissioner says there would be no subdividing if 5A is added. It’s the very last sentence. I hope classifications are divided equally. Only bad thing is more split conferences but would be worth less state champions. But it is not true about all sports currently being subdivided. Just football.

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12 hours ago, burnstweeter said:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/preps-blog/article229978669.html

Commissioner says there would be no subdividing if 5A is added. It’s the very last sentence. I hope classifications are divided equally. Only bad thing is more split conferences but would be worth less state champions. But it is not true about all sports currently being subdivided. Just football.

Read the complete paragraph and you will see it is not correct.  The NCHSAA only subdivides football.  I think they are open to some various options with football.

"Currently, the association subdivides all of its playoffs, resulting in eight champions from four classes. Under a 5A scenario, Tucker said there would be five championships named."

That is the NCHSAA admin preference.  I would jump for joy if we had five football champions!!!!!  I expect it will remain at eight.  2A through 4A subdivide.  1A and 5A the do not.  Just a personal opinion based on some options that have been presented in the past by the NCHSAA during realignment talks.

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18 hours ago, Dawg Dynasty said:

In my opinion, I do not see the state going from 8 state champions in football to 5.  2 reasons...

 

1.  They do not want their pocket books taking a hit from the reduction of playoff game gates.

2.  If they go 20% across the board they are already subdividing 1A and 4A who are at 20% so why would they not continue to do that if all classifications 20%.  

I for one do not want to see 10 state champions.  Keep it at 8 and the 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 model for the classification model. 2A-4A have subdivided playoffs.

They opened Pandora’s box when they went to 8 and there is no turning back now.

In my opinion for the 1A and 5A state titles you only have 32 teams in the bracket. In the 2A-4A brackets you have 64 teams per classification than subdivide the 64 playoff teams into 2 32 team brackets (A/AA) like we have done in the past.  You would have 8 state championship brackets with 32 teams in each bracket.  Mathematically speaking you would have each classification represented by an equal number of teams percentage wise.  Equality is something that I could see being appealing to the NCHSAA.  As of this past season you have 378 football playing schools.  Your breakdowns would be 48 teams in 1A and 5A and 94 in 2A-4A.

  

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  • Interesting. I would like to see a 5 classification system. I remember when us coaches wanted an 11th game. The NCHSAA was adamant that this was not going to happen. They even went to the point of giving us all these reason why it was a bad idea. Then all of a sudden they realized that they could add to their bank account by adding an 11th game, take half of the money and call it an Endowment Game with the money going to the Endowment Fund. So, as much as I would like to see a 5 classification system I am skeptical based on the fact that this would delete 3 games in the playoffs and therefore there would be less money coming into the NCHSAA coffers. I hope I am wrong.  If they do not do this I really hope they go back to the 25/25/25/25 format. This 20/30/30/20 format really sucks!

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NCHSAA endowment game cut is 25% of gate and fees. 

The 20/30/30/20 is probably better for the 1A and 4A than the 25%x4 but not as good for 2A and 3A.  

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My point is they did not think it was a good idea until someone told them they could make money off the deal. 25%, 50%. The percentage is not important in the scheme of things. The fact that they are getting any percentage is the problem.

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Why call it 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 4AA. Why not use 5A instead of 4AA. Sounds dumb to me.

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I think it will be 5A by the time it happens.  I believe the reason the 4AA took hold is because the number of teams in the largest classification is the equivalent of the 4AA football playoff subdivided class.

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1 hour ago, Glenn said:

Why call it 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 4AA. Why not use 5A instead of 4AA. Sounds dumb to me.

 

48 minutes ago, btango said:

I think it will be 5A by the time it happens.  I believe the reason the 4AA took hold is because the number of teams in the largest classification is the equivalent of the 4AA football playoff subdivided class.

They have to change bylaws to allow 5A...as of right now NC can only have four classifications so 5A currently has to be called 4AA. Will be voted on in December whether to change the bylaws. Then will let the schools vote next May on whether to add 5A.

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1 hour ago, burnstweeter said:

 

They have to change bylaws to allow 5A...as of right now NC can only have four classifications so 5A currently has to be called 4AA. Will be voted on in December whether to change the bylaws. Then will let the schools vote next May on whether to add 5A.

What they are calling the potential proposal really has no bearing on the classifications.  In the past both three and five classifications have been presented and they used 1A-3A and 1A-5A.  I personally think using that name is somewhat of a way to describe where they are going with this plan.

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Just check with our neighbors to the south in South Carolina. They added a 5A class not too long ago. So what if the 5A schools are mainly Charlotte and Raleigh. During the playoffs, the Charlotte and Raleigh schools rarely play any team outside the Mecklenburg and Wake County lines anyway.

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3 hours ago, DarkhorseFanatic said:

Just check with our neighbors to the south in South Carolina. They added a 5A class not too long ago. So what if the 5A schools are mainly Charlotte and Raleigh. During the playoffs, the Charlotte and Raleigh schools rarely play any team outside the Mecklenburg and Wake County lines anyway.

Charlotte schools are not the issue on getting five classes approved.  They are fine with four or five.  

5A would have some schools from Wilmington, Fayetteville, the Triangle, and Triad plus the Sandhills.  May have missed one from another part of the state.

SC had two schools bring a lawsuit against the SCHSL last year regarding the new alignment and districts.  Always complaints and jockeying on this in every state.

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It would be more exciting if you didn't turnaround in the playoffs, and within 2nd round you're already playing a team that was in your conference.....smh!

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1 hour ago, work7 said:

It would be more exciting if you didn't turnaround in the playoffs, and within 2nd round you're already playing a team that was in your conference.....smh!

When three and four or even five teams make the playoffs from a conference it causes early rematches.  4A should have went to four rounds last year and not had a bye week.  Finish with 1A a week before 2A and 3A.  

Less teams have been proposed but met with a lot of resistance from schools.

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 8:22 AM, ramheadbut said:

Also the only schools that fits in 5A outside of Charlotte and Raleigh according to last years ADM's( I know this may change) are 

 

Wouldn't this be a better split?

In the East

Hoggard 

Laney

Ashley

Clayton

Jordan

Hillside 

Hoke

Richmond

 

In the West 

NW Guilford

West Forsyth

Pinecrest

Reagan

Lake Norman

Page

Moresville

Cox Mill

Grimsley

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You cannot really separate the state east and west until the playoffs due to the unbalanced number of teams in the two sides of the state.  If there were 30 teams in the west and 22 in the east.  In a 32 team playoff 16 of 22 from the east qualify and 16 of 30 from the west.  If they are going to do it with predetermined regionals in 5A they would need to drop the regional format which would offer some options and may work better.

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With five classes they are not expected to go with evenly split number iof schools per class.  With four most expect 25% across the classes.

In a five class setup close to 1900 would be the cutoff.  

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3 hours ago, Panther2018 said:

here's my idea for a conference for 5a

Hoke
Richmond
Pinecrest
Lumberton 
Jack Britt
Purnell Swett
South View
Overhills
Pine Forest 

On a 47 team 5A  (12.5%)  Lumberton would be the smallest school.  PS, SV, Overhills, and PF would be 4A.  There will be split classification conferences.

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17 hours ago, btango said:

On a 47 team 5A  (12.5%)  Lumberton would be the smallest school.  PS, SV, Overhills, and PF would be 4A.  There will be split classification conferences.

Wheres the line on a 12.5% 1A, I imagine there would be a tone of 1A/2A split conferences in that scenario otherwise teams would travel a long ways for conference games. Conferences like the SMC and Yadkin Valley could stay in tact, alot would change drastically i would imagine. 

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13 hours ago, LarryRandolph said:

Wheres the line on a 12.5% 1A, I imagine there would be a tone of 1A/2A split conferences in that scenario otherwise teams would travel a long ways for conference games. Conferences like the SMC and Yadkin Valley could stay in tact, alot would change drastically i would imagine. 

Approximately 47 schools is 12.5% of the football playing schools.  I think the line would be Mooresville, Sanderson, or Hopewell being the smallest 4A school at around 1,850 plus students.  Just a guess but I would think 1A would be approximately 550 which would be Swain being the largest 1A school.

 

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I just hope they don't go to 5 classes and then subdivide them all. I’d rather see 6 classes & no subdividing. Of course, geography is the limfac in any/all ideas. 

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If they go to 5 classes my guess is they will not subdivide. But, with the NCHSAA there is no telling what the outcome will be.

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45 minutes ago, Glenn said:

If they go to 5 classes my guess is they will not subdivide. But, with the NCHSAA there is no telling what the outcome will be.

From very reliable sources, I've been hearing the possibility of two potential scenarios in regards to subdivision.  I've been told that 8 championships are still a possibility with the 1A & 5A being stand alone, and with the 2A, 3A, & 4A being subdivided.  I personally have zero issue with that.  I've also been told that there is a possibility of no subdividing once a fifth classification is added.  I'm all for that 100%, but I can live with eight as well.  

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