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Realignment Process Delayed...NC Seeks to Add 5A in 2021

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https://www.highschoolot.com/nchsaa...s3ORjHIliSoRZ8Cobs4WZuPE2K-GOg9uQYs3RAVe87_NA

The next realignment process has been delayed a year. The new conferences will still go into effect in the 2021-2022 school year, this just eliminates the “lame duck year.” I like this because enrollment fluctuates and a school may be 3A size when the realignment figures come out, however when the new conferences actually start 2 years later, enrollment may have dropped to 2A size and they are stuck in 3A for at least 2 years...usually 4. Case in point...Burns...thankfully we were able to move down this year but I digress. Now this might just be a one off...because they are looking to add 5A. They basically already have...but are just calling it “4AA” for now. They have to change the bylaws. But sounds like it’s gonna happen. Just not sure how the classifications are gonna be divided up, or how the playoffs are going to work yet. Should be interesting. The football coaches and AD’s are just going to have to hit the ground running on the scheduling for 2021 and 2022 because of the process being postponed. That’s the only downside to this.

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If NCHSAA wants to add 5A why not go to 6 classes and go back to 32 teams in each bracket?  It would cut down on the total number of teams in post season and, for the most part, end the argument that the current playoff system is watered down. 

Would we crown 10 state champions under a 5 class system?

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3 minutes ago, rockfbguru said:

If NCHSAA wants to add 5A why not go to 6 classes and go back to 32 teams in each bracket?  It would cut down on the total number of teams in post season and, for the most part, end the argument that the current playoff system is watered down. 

Would we crown 10 state champions under a 5 class system?

From some sources that I have spoken with, they feel that it could be a 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 system in which the 1A and 5A's are not subdivided, but the 2A through 4A's are, thus keeping the 8 state champions in football and staying at five for all other sports. 

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If NCHSAA wants to add 5A why not go to 6 classes and go back to 32 teams in each bracket?  It would cut down on the total number of teams in post season and, for the most part, end the argument that the current playoff system is watered down. 

Would we crown 10 state champions under a 5 class system?

My information is that they will have 5 champs. As far as 6 classifications, I like the idea but it would probably not ne as easy to develop conferences for 6 classifications as it would be to develop 5. 

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Glenn, the six classes works well for football especially the playoffs but not so much for non football sports which are very competitive.

I have heard five champions with five classifications but I have heard it will remain at eight with 1A and 5A not subdividing due half the amount of teams in those two classifications.  Can you imagine the complaining of the coaches if they reduce the number of titles?!?

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16 hours ago, btango said:

Glenn, the six classes works well for football especially the playoffs but not so much for non football sports which are very competitive.

I have heard five champions with five classifications but I have heard it will remain at eight with 1A and 5A not subdividing due half the amount of teams in those two classifications.  Can you imagine the complaining of the coaches if they reduce the number of titles?!?

You are probably right btango. I expect to see 12.5/25/25/25/12.5 in 2021.

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My thought is that dividing into 5 divisions will require some schools to have to travel distances to find a conference that fits their numbers so 6 classifications would be even more difficult to implement. Now, if we do it just for playoffs that would be easy. That falls into line with what I have always suggested. My suggestion has always been to come up with a set of criteria for making the playoffs. Split up those schools who qualify into 8 divisions regardless of what classification they were in during the regular season. They may have been a 3A school during the regular season but because of their ADM numbers they are now in a higher or lower division for the playoffs. Call the playoffs division 1, division 2, etc. Or continue to call them A, AA, etc. I don't care about that. Last I will say that whatever the coaches decide are fine with me because we are the ones who put our hearts and souls as well as our hundreds of hours in the heat, humidity and cold to get our kids to be the best that they can be. I am not down grading the parents, booster club members or fans because they are also very important, but the fact is those of us who are coaches deserve to get what we want. That includes the AD's, Principals and the people who work at the NCHSAA office on these boards and committees who usually make all the final decisions. Coaches deserve a bigger voice than these other people because we are the ones who put in the work. I am not talking about one coach rep. I am talking every HC deserves a vote. The HC vote should reflect how his assistants feel. As an assistant coach (I have been a HC ) I put a huge amount of time into what I do as well. These are our programs as well as our kids programs and it is our responsibility to make sure we do what is best for our kids. If we are happy with 8 championships, then that is what we should have. I don't care what the fans want.  

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Glenn, I agree the coaches should have a lot more say!  The biggest issue is the coaches cannot figure out how to work together for the greater good of the game as they mostly look out for what is in their team’s current best interest.

Regarding football champions, the reason there are eight is because a group of smaller 1A schools in eastern NC got together and pushed for 1A to subdivide for the 2001 season which rolled to all classes in 2002.

When there was discussion of going to five classifications seven years ago the first question at the regional meeting I attended was would football go to ten champions.  If football had five classes with each class having an even number of schools would you agree with ten champions if the coaches voted for it?  If it were six equal classes would you support twelve champions if the coaches wanted it? 

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4 hours ago, smashmouth5 said:

I now wonder why if sub dividing is good enough for football, why not other sports?  

One reason I think five classes is being put out for the next realignment is because the schools were starting to discuss subdividing all sports.  The issue is most sports are very competitive from top to bottom of the classes.  Football seemed to be the one where the larger schools dominated the classification and it was 1A coaches from smaller eastern schools that pushed for subdividing in 2001.

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 If football had five classes with each class having an even number of schools would you agree with ten champions if the coaches voted for it?  If it were six equal classes would you support twelve champions if the coaches wanted it? 


  • If that is what the FB coaches voted to do as a group, I would have no problem with it. The problem is the coaches have very little say so in what happens. So, it makes little difference what they decide as a group it is not going to matter. Those decisions are made by superintendents, principals, and AD's. So what we coaches think has zero meaning. Those of us who do all the work get almost zero voice.

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32 minutes ago, Glenn said:

The problem is the coaches have very little say so in what happens. So, it makes little difference what they decide as a group it is not going to matter. Those decisions are made by superintendents, principals, and AD's. So what we coaches think has zero meaning. Those of us who do all the work get almost zero voice.

I always go back to the coaches association is weak and does not work together with a united front.  Just my opinion.

At the regional basketball title games a head football coach was asked by someone he knew how his season had went.  The coach replied very proudly, “it was a good season.  Made the playoffs.”  They were 4-8 and lost in the first round.  

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The coaches association is weak because they have almost no say so in final decisions made. I have said this before. The superintendents, principals, AD's and NCHSAA members make most of the decisions. So why would the coaches be united when they feel it is a waste of time.  At 4-8 many coaches would not want to be in the playoffs, but looking at it from another coaching perspective it gives your kids another week of practice and another game experience as well as extra money. Plus, it is about the kids. It has nothing to do with the coaches or the fans egos.  Personally I will play all the games I can for the reasons I mentioned. 

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I understand the extra week of practice and experience.  My point is, “we made the playoffs” is “successful” to some.  One very successful coach included in his biography, “made the playoffs x straight years when making the playoffs actually meant something.”  Some paraphrasing but that is close.

You will never win if you are not united as one voice behind a proposal.  When I asked a board member why they voted against a proposal brought by the coaches he point blank said my coach was against it and a few of the other board members said the same.  In that instance a coach got what he wanted but at the expense of what was voted on.  Must say that the vote probably consisted of 20% of the HCs as very few show for the meeting although they are at the clinic.

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You bring up a very good point that is another major problem. You can have the coaches vote and have a majority who vote YES on a proposal, yet you have some coaches who vote NO on that proposal and his principal uses his NO vote when the NCHSAA votes as a body. It only takes a few of these votes to determine the wrong outcome. If the NCHSAA Board Of Directors allowed the coaches to vote as a body with the HC at each school getting a ballot which they voted and sent in having a major impact on the decision I would agree with you. But, the fact is that is not the case so why should the coaches  waste their time unifying. The coaches have never felt that their voices are heard. At our FB Coaches Association meeting in Feb. we have voted on things that were requested and we were shot down. I was told by a valid source that when he left the meeting to make a long trip home he was under the impression that the playoffs would be 25/254/25/25 and everyone was in agreement. But, somewhere along the way it was changed. When he got home he was dumbfounded to find out they had decided to go to the stupid 20/30/30/20 format. No wonder the coaches get the idea that no matter what they want it is not going to happen.

 

 

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What Coach is present during the board meetings and leaves before the vote?  He would not be st the meetings if he were not on the board and a board member is there for the vote.

Issue is a major item like realignment is not football centric.  When a football only alignment was proposed the schools nearly crapped themselves.  Ridiculous!  That was a missed opportunity.

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What Coach is present during the board meetings and leaves before the vote?  He would not be st the meetings if he were not on the board and a board member is there for the vote.

He was on the board. He had to leave because he had a long 6-7 hour drive back home. He left because he was assured that the 25/25/25/25 system was going to remain the system used.

The schools should have total control. The NCHSAA should have zero power in what we do. We do not need the wagon pulling the horse.

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It is not that far from Forsyth County to CM. At EG we travel to SW Randolph and Asheboro. Person County travels to RC, McMichael and Morehead. When I was at NEG we traveled to Forsyth County to play Carver, Glenn and Parkland. I will tell you it is easier to get from FC to CM on a Friday afternoon than it is to go from NEG up I40 to FC on a Friday afternoon. Some of the schools on the outer banks has a travel problem. Mountain schools have travel problems because many mountain roads go around the mountain and not across the mountain. Plus, FC decided to allow kids to go to HS wherever they choose to go. The distance is not the problem. The problem is I40 traffic is brutal. My point is these problems will always exist no matter what you do.After saying all of this, the FC AD has a valid point.

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On 5/3/2019 at 11:38 PM, Glenn said:

If NCHSAA wants to add 5A why not go to 6 classes and go back to 32 teams in each bracket?  It would cut down on the total number of teams in post season and, for the most part, end the argument that the current playoff system is watered down. 

Would we crown 10 state champions under a 5 class system?

My information is that they will have 5 champs. As far as 6 classifications, I like the idea but it would probably not ne as easy to develop conferences for 6 classifications as it would be to develop 5. 

I like this idea.  Just might create more split conferences. 

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13 hours ago, Glenn said:

What Coach is present during the board meetings and leaves before the vote?  He would not be st the meetings if he were not on the board and a board member is there for the vote.

He was on the board. He had to leave because he had a long 6-7 hour drive back home. He left because he was assured that the 25/25/25/25 system was going to remain the system used.

The schools should have total control. The NCHSAA should have zero power in what we do. We do not need the wagon pulling the horse.

The vote was May 2016.  (One of the few meetings I have missed in several years.  Travel.)  I know both the coaches that were on the board that year.  Both quality men and coaches.  There was one vote missing (16 instead of 17) but the vote was 16-0.  Both of their teams were 1A with one coming down from 2A.  Did not change much for them.  At 16-0 I am not sure what changed from the time the coach left and until the vote.  

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was told classifications wouldn't matter with con's.  Example would be...Gaston County would like to have there own con.  So you would have the 10 schools in Gaston County in one con.  Classification wouldn't matter till playoffs.  That would help keep travel down instead of trying to find a con for all the schools.  Anyone know if that was talked about?

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btango. All I know is he was told nothing was going to change but then it was. The 16-0  this shows me again the the two coaches do not have any say so. The 14 who do are no coaches. I do not want non coaches making decisions for me.

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smasgmouth5. That seems like a great idea to me. Cabarrus was the same way when MPHS was in this conference but the higher powers that be did not have the guts to reassign CC students to MPHS and MPHS was reassigned to a 2A conference. I do not blame them for that at all. 

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1 hour ago, Glenn said:

btango. All I know is he was told nothing was going to change but then it was. The 16-0  this shows me again the the two coaches do not have any say so. The 14 who do are no coaches. I do not want non coaches making decisions for me.

I think one of them voted.  I’ll see if I can confirm.

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2 hours ago, smashmouth5 said:

was told classifications wouldn't matter with con's.  Example would be...Gaston County would like to have there own con.  So you would have the 10 schools in Gaston County in one con.  Classification wouldn't matter till playoffs.  That would help keep travel down instead of trying to find a con for all the schools.  Anyone know if that was talked about?

It has been before but i am sure it would not go over with all schools.  An average 2A school would not want to play 3A and 4A schools most likely.

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2 hours ago, Glenn said:

smasgmouth5. That seems like a great idea to me. Cabarrus was the same way when MPHS was in this conference but the higher powers that be did not have the guts to reassign CC students to MPHS and MPHS was reassigned to a 2A conference. I do not blame them for that at all. 

That was a total screw job by Cabarrus County Schools on Mount.  They had to play four years in 3A.  Won 3 and 5 games twice.  In 2A won 14 and 8 in 3A before then 8 and 11 after.

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4 hours ago, smashmouth5 said:

was told classifications wouldn't matter with con's.  Example would be...Gaston County would like to have there own con.  So you would have the 10 schools in Gaston County in one con.  Classification wouldn't matter till playoffs.  That would help keep travel down instead of trying to find a con for all the schools.  Anyone know if that was talked about?

It’s one thing for East Gaston to play with the 3A schools but 1A schools Bessemer City and Cherryville honestly have no business in a conference with 3A schools in football, just my opinion. It would make it harder for them to get to the playoffs playing bigger schools. I prefer for schools to play within their classification in football in regular season.  I would have no problem with this in other sports where travel is a factor,  however. They really do need to reconsider separate alignments for other sports.

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