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If you are a current head coach, you should steer away from this job. Chip English is the only coach who has lasted more than two years for a long time. This job is for someone young and trying to get a head coaching gig. Way too many issues to uproot your family and move if you’re not given time to develop the program. This is a long term rebuild with a championship team next door kids will bounce to if things are not good.

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It's funny. WC  first year, as a school,north Iredell was placed in the conference with them. Now according to your post sounds like we have gone in the same direction for whatever reason. Good luck to them. These high school jobs are not created equal.  

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@GDG

How would you categorize the issues? Lack of talent? Absence of community/administrative support? Too much community/administrative support (helicopter parents, micromanaging admins)? A combination of one or more of the above?

 

It seems like many of the programs lacking success have similar issues. 

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31 minutes ago, lbedwards said:

@GDG

How would you categorize the issues? Lack of talent? Absence of community/administrative support? Too much community/administrative support (helicopter parents, micromanaging admins)? A combination of one or more of the above?

 

It seems like many of the programs lacking success have similar issues. 

I’m not in that area as much this year. The past has been a combination of many things. It starts with the admin support and selection of a long term commitment coach but they never give guys long. Community support is definitely an issue as the area is economically not as stable as South Caldwell and Hibriten. 

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@GDG

 

Thanks for the insight. I wish these places that are perpetual coaching graveyards would wake up to realize the benefits of having a strong and successful football program. I hate it for the kids. They deserve better.

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1 hour ago, lbedwards said:

@GDG

 

Thanks for the insight. I wish these places that are perpetual coaching graveyards would wake up to realize the benefits of having a strong and successful football program. I hate it for the kids. They deserve better.

Anytime a coach doesn’t get the support of his leaders it trickles down to the kids as well. I’ve been around the wrestling program at West Caldwell a number of years and they were well coached. They had a number of state individual champions. They were great sportsmen. Whether he got support I don’t know. I do know he brought the wrestlers to a ton of events well prepared. I know the basketball coaches stayed long terms except for Antonio Lyerly who also got a two year stint before being released. I personally knew Antonio and he was one of the most respectful young men you will ever meet and played four years at Mars Hill. Don’t know that situation either, only rumors.

I know it’s in the kids but they just have not had the fire in the football program except a four year stint with Chip English. The guy was dedicated and motivated the athletes. He was young, energetic, and dedicated. It was a great loss to the program but he made a family decision as anyone would. This year’s team was much like previous years before English arrived. I don’t think it was what Holman expected or anticipated. It’s not like he wasn’t a good fit because he was. Why hire a man then not give him what he needs. Everyone knew West Caldwell would hit a athlete slump in Holman’s first year. They graduated a ton of three year starters before Holman came.

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@GDG This maybe a dumb question but

Teams that really struggle in sports weather its football or soccer or whatever it maybe.  Would Dropping that Sport be beneficial -like example South Davidson they are a very small school n aren't too great at football but they are good in some sports so why not Focus on the Sports that work for that school? 

Yes , ik this isn't ideal n all but just curious if this could be a option or not - i mean look at Statesville Christian (Yes ik they are private) they added football but tbh it hasn't been as successful as Basketball or other sports **Note: Yes they did win state title but Idk if they will ever be competitive again with all the changes and everything**

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Football is the revenue sport. Dropping it would hurt all athletics. West needs someone young that will make an effort at the youth and middle school levels and they would be fine.

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13 minutes ago, HHS2003BEAM said:

Football is the revenue sport. Dropping it would hurt all athletics. West needs someone young that will make an effort at the youth and middle school levels and they would be fine.

Totally agree with Beamer on this. But has West Caldwell’s AD or ADs ever given anyone time? I can’t remember that happening since the late 90’s. No way you drop football at schools above 700 students. As Beamer stated it brings in a lot of money. But it also cost a lot of money to field a team. Unless soccer rises to the premiere American sport it’s an absolute financial necessity in most locations. It will not be in my lifetime but soccer will rise to a level of fandom equal to football. It’s the world sport. I can tell you out of four kids, only one has attended a high school football game, and only one game, post graduation. None ever played soccer but all three watch European soccer teams on television. 

I’ve been to Charlotte school games and you would think with 1800-3000 students they would pack a venue but they don’t. I mention this because rural areas tend to have very little entertainment so they are big Friday night attendees. You can not overlook a Friday night payday. With concessions successful programs are looking north of $20,000 dollars per home event. Every sport is subsidized off of football revenue. Yes some schools could self sustain sports from gates, many more could not come close. I’ve never seen a crowd large enough to fund swimming, tennis, softball, baseball, lacrosse, track, cross country, golf, or volleyball.

I will go on record that I believe there is way too many sports programs at schools. The caving to politics to keep your job has lead to this. Small schools don’t need nor put enough effort into some of these programs but they are afraid to say no. Lord help you if you try to eliminate one. 

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no matter what is said in public, there just isn't the support from administration for the FB program.......you've got another Anderson  at the helm for basketball so expect to see things continue on the same path.....

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12 hours ago, GDG said:

Anytime a coach doesn’t get the support of his leaders it trickles down to the kids as well. I’ve been around the wrestling program at West Caldwell a number of years and they were well coached. They had a number of state individual champions. They were great sportsmen. Whether he got support I don’t know. I do know he brought the wrestlers to a ton of events well prepared. I know the basketball coaches stayed long terms except for Antonio Lyerly who also got a two year stint before being released. I personally knew Antonio and he was one of the most respectful young men you will ever meet and played four years at Mars Hill. Don’t know that situation either, only rumors.

I know it’s in the kids but they just have not had the fire in the football program except a four year stint with Chip English. The guy was dedicated and motivated the athletes. He was young, energetic, and dedicated. It was a great loss to the program but he made a family decision as anyone would. This year’s team was much like previous years before English arrived. I don’t think it was what Holman expected or anticipated. It’s not like he wasn’t a good fit because he was. Why hire a man then not give him what he needs. Everyone knew West Caldwell would hit a athlete slump in Holman’s first year. They graduated a ton of three year starters before Holman came.

but he also had some pretty good talent to motivate as well.....Nick Saban ain't turning that program around based on the kids they have on the field.

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Ok Since 2000 West Caldwell is 74-145.  That is not just a program having a couple of down years that's a program in crisis . From an outside view this might be a tougher job than many might think and might take someone a half a decade to fix if it can be fixed at all.   In that time frame  2000-2018 West Caldwell has had 4 (0-11) seasons and 3(1-10) seasons, that's tough to overcome.  Now can it be fixed? Perhaps but let me tell you something about rebuilding programs it takes time and it takes backing from an administration, if you don't have that you are pi$$ing up a rope .  

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27 minutes ago, Mustang sally said:

Ok Since 2000 West Caldwell is 74-145.  That is not just a program having a couple of down years that's a program in crisis . From an outside view this might be a tougher job than many might think and might take someone a half a decade to fix if it can be fixed at all.   In that time frame  2000-2018 West Caldwell has had 4 (0-11) seasons and 3(1-10) seasons, that's tough to overcome.  Now can it be fixed? Perhaps but let me tell you something about rebuilding programs it takes time and it takes backing from an administration, if you don't have that you are pi$$ing up a rope .  

Spot on. Patience from an administration is needed if you want to start turning around a program like West Caldwell. An example currently in Charlotte may very well be Garinger. If Jeff Caldwell coaches there next year he will be the first coach to be at that school for at least three season since 2000-02. 

That kind of turnover does not bode well if you want to try and develop a winning culture. Many years it was the administration at Garinger holding the program back, now Caldwell seems to have the backing of the administration, they are fielding a JV team and won 3 games this year(one by forfeit), their most since 2010. 

 

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If I were to think out loud a bit at coaches who I think have the pedigree, and more importantly the stature, skills, and know-how to rebuild this program, that list would look a bit like this; (and for the record, none of these guys have shown interest, its just me thinking aloud). 

1. Joe Glass (He has flirted with this job in the past and he would demand that the players buy in and do things his way, I think you would see immediate results taking them in a positive direction.)

2. Butch Carter (He's won big in Caldwell County before and I would throw everything I had at him to get him to return home.  I think he's another coach that would get instant results.)

3. Adrian Snow (I know that they've reached out to him before and I would do so again.  Snow is one of the best in the state and has experience in that region as he did a great job at Watauga)

4. Martin Samek (Look at the job he's done at Parkland, now I don't think he would necessarily be interested in W.C., but I sure would make a call and ask.  He's from Western PA in an area not to different from Caldwell, I think he would thrive up there and he did coach in the South and Western Piedmont regions before in Gaston County and at St. Stephens.)

5. Joe Pinyan (He's out of a job at Carson and his leadership style and power running attack would do well in Caldwell County, and he certainly brings a championship pedigree.)

6. Mike Helms (He's been a winner everywhere and I know he's itching to get back into coaching.  He may be misunderstood on a personal level, has had some high profile trouble, and may appear to have some baggage, but I know for a fact that he is a great football coach, and I know that kids love him and would play hard for him, and he would win.)

7. Allen Whittenburg (He's a coach I would not be surprised to hear got a shot at this job, he's got experience and I think he's a far better coach that his record would indicate.  I also love son's of coaches, they know how to get it done)

8. Tom Eanes (Another coach I would call immediately if I were AD Stephen McMasters would be this fellow, we've seen how quickly he turned Bandys around and his track record for rebuilding has been remarkable.)

9. Randal Gusler (He just hit the 100-win mark in Statesville and you never know, maybe he would want a new challenge?  I don't know, just thinking out load, but he would do great in the foothills.)

10. George Coltharp (He played up the road at Appalachian State, he has had a good run of coaching in the East, and knowing his mindset and how he interacts with players, coaches, and parents, and having been an administrator as well, he has the strong mental makeup to be able to thrive at a job like this.)

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If you notice, I do not have a young guy on my list, I don't know if this is a job for a young coach.  I know Chip English did well, but he wasn't exactly young when he took over, he had a boat load of experience that he brought with him from A.L. Brown. 

 

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Also, let's clear up some facts and mindsets that some may have about DeVore Holman. I think that he is a tremendous coach, and one of the better men that I have known for a long, long time.  I know that this season was lets face it, terrible at West Caldwell, but I don't want to throw it solely on his shoulders.  I had the Warriors in the CP Jamboree for the past three or four seasons, and you could tell that there was a significant talent drop off, as well as a dip in overall participation numbers.  Is that his fault?  Maybe a little in regards to numbers, but I wouldn't say so overall. 

I just think that his tenure at West got off to a slow start due in large part by some medical issues he faced last summer, something that almost took his life, but he battled back and got himself back on the sidelines.  The one thing I saw immediately was the overwhelming support he received from his players who absolutely loved him.  That's been a one constant in his career, dating back to his days at Davie, the players always loved him because his love for them was unmistakable and he has always been a coach that put kids interests first. 

Holman was, and still is one of the best defensive minds I've ever seen.  His defensive squads at Davie back in the 90's and 00's were legit.  I think it speaks very highly of him and his coaching ability, that the moment word started leaking out that he would not return, coaches from all over the region started asking me for his number so they could hire him, so its safe to say that he won't be without work long. 

I do hate this for him because I know he loved the West community, but I just thought it needed to be stated that you can't judge a coach by one bad season. 

From an administrative perspective, I get it why they wanted to make a change.  Football is a huge deal to the school, it is a business that pays the bills and drives morale, and they felt they needed to go in a different direction.  I don't fault them for it at all, head coaches have to know that when they enter a situation at any school, they can be let go for performance based issues. 

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Chris states:

From an administrative perspective, I get it why they wanted to make a change.  Football is a huge deal to the school, it is a business that pays the bills and drives morale, and they felt they needed to go in a different direction.  I don't fault them for it at all, head coaches have to know that when they enter a situation at any school, they can be let go for performance based issues. 

...........................................

But this school has a long history in the last 15 years of packing up a one and two year coach. No coach is going to have instant results at West Caldwell. Holman deserved more from a school who uproots and moves across the state. That's a financial impact for a coach. This is not a private sector growth of business evaluation. You get a product for 11 weeks. I feel WC failed themselves and Holman just like many other coaches before him.

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1 hour ago, Hibriten said:

pretty sure Butch Carter is "persona non grata" in the Caldwell County school system.......

 

 

 

Yeah. He's done in Caldwell for sure.

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I know one who has retired, then started coaching again. Has the resume, has rebuilt a program, and has spanked west butt so many times they probably would not even hire him,, cannon could get it started in the right direction.

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7 minutes ago, HIBRITEN92 said:

I know one who has retired, then started coaching again. Has the resume, has rebuilt a program, and has spanked west butt so many times they probably would not even hire him,, cannon could get it started in the right direction.

Isn't Cannon the AD at Wilkes Central now?  I totally agree that he would be an outstanding candidate for the job. 

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25 minutes ago, GDG said:

Yeah. He's done in Caldwell for sure.

Hey thanks for the interpretation  gotta watch ole hibriten,,, he is an Alexander Central grad with a high level of vocabulary!!! 😁

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2 minutes ago, Chris Hughes said:

Isn't Cannon the AD at Wilkes Central now?  I totally agree that he would be an outstanding candidate for the job. 

I think he is , also works with football team the way i understand it.  He sure did a heck of a job at hibriten,,, success just seems to follow chuck. I dont however that the current administration and he would get along,, he would however do a great job at getting the community involved.

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2 minutes ago, HIBRITEN92 said:

Hey thanks for the interpretation  gotta watch ole hibriten,,, he is an Alexander Central grad with a high level of vocabulary!!! 😁

 

Uh, I'm a proud HHS alum.

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5 minutes ago, Chris Hughes said:

Isn't Cannon the AD at Wilkes Central now?  I totally agree that he would be an outstanding candidate for the job. 

He might actually apply....he likes the challenge of a rebuild.

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Just now, HIBRITEN92 said:

Just poking fun at your OVERWHELMING love for AC

lol i totally missed the sarcasm......

 

yes oh yes the mighty cooters of AC!

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I know we live in a microwave society where positive results should be immediate. However, that isn't how things work. Lasting rewards are often long in the making with many hours spent behind the scenes building success one step at a time. Those who can turn things around instantaneously rarely having enduring success as they have built their fame on a house of cards. In saying this, an 18 year run of mostly futility precedes Holman and, unless change occurs, will continue without him. Unless the resources (i.e. talent) are in place and abundant, building a program of substance takes time. Local to me, I think of the turnaround job Samek has done at Parkland. His first two years begin with an 0-22 record. Year three yields a 3-8 finish followed by 7-5 and then 6-6. If we judged him on his first three years (3-30) we could say he is a terrible coach. If we judged him on years four and five (13-11) we could say he is mediocre at best. Yet here we are in year 6 and Parkland finishes the regular season 10-1. A combined six year record of 26-42. Yet the program has changed. There is talent on the field. There are results showing up on the scoreboard. From a distance it seems that the Parkland community bought into the program and are reaping the rewards. Who knows what the future holds for Samek and Parkland, right now they are trending upward. In situations such as West Caldwell, those in management positions (I can't say leadership because I do not know if they are leaders or administrative placeholders) would do well to investigate the small victories that lead to larger ones. Patience is a virtue few possess. I'm reminded of words from Amazon founder Jeff Bezos who, to paraphrase, said if Amazon had a good quarter it's because of work they did 3, 4, 5 years ago - not because they did a good job that quarter. W. Caldwell needs to have the longest view in the room to make a hire for four-to-five years down the road. 

 

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6 minutes ago, lbedwards said:

I know we live in a microwave society where positive results should be immediate. However, that isn't how things work. Lasting rewards are often long in the making with many hours spent behind the scenes building success one step at a time. Those who can turn things around instantaneously rarely having enduring success as they have built their fame on a house of cards. In saying this, an 18 year run of mostly futility precedes Holman and, unless change occurs, will continue without him. Unless the resources (i.e. talent) are in place and abundant, building a program of substance takes time. Local to me, I think of the turnaround job Samek has done at Parkland. His first two years begin with an 0-22 record. Year three yields a 3-8 finish followed by 7-5 and then 6-6. If we judged him on his first three years (3-30) we could say he is a terrible coach. If we judged him on years four and five (13-11) we could say he is mediocre at best. Yet here we are in year 6 and Parkland finishes the regular season 10-1. A combined six year record of 26-42. Yet the program has changed. There is talent on the field. There are results showing up on the scoreboard. From a distance it seems that the Parkland community bought into the program and are reaping the rewards. Who knows what the future holds for Samek and Parkland, right now they are trending upward. In situations such as West Caldwell, those in management positions (I can't say leadership because I do not know if they are leaders or administrative placeholders) would do well to investigate the small victories that lead to larger ones. Patience is a virtue few possess. I'm reminded of words from Amazon founder Jeff Bezos who, to paraphrase, said if Amazon had a good quarter it's because of work they did 3, 4, 5 years ago - not because they did a good job that quarter. W. Caldwell needs to have the longest view in the room to make a hire for four-to-five years down the road. 

 

You win the day, this is the best post I've seen all day.  Well done and very accurate.  

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I hope West Caldwell can find someone who will invest the time and energy to build something from scratch.  It was sad to see the team non-competitive this season and in all fairness, that's what they were, non-competitive.  Last season they were not bad at all and won 6 games but when practice started in August, less than 30 players showed up (Varsity and JV combined) so it's an uphill battle.  Caldwell County has been notorious in that the football players go to Hibriten, Basketball players go to West Caldwell, and Baseball players of course go to South Caldwell.  It's not quite that simple anymore for a number of reasons.  I wonder if the school system would do some remapping that might decrease the number of students at South and shift them to West.  Just a thought

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40 minutes ago, Schmo said:

I hope West Caldwell can find someone who will invest the time and energy to build something from scratch.  It was sad to see the team non-competitive this season and in all fairness, that's what they were, non-competitive.  Last season they were not bad at all and won 6 games but when practice started in August, less than 30 players showed up (Varsity and JV combined) so it's an uphill battle.  Caldwell County has been notorious in that the football players go to Hibriten, Basketball players go to West Caldwell, and Baseball players of course go to South Caldwell.  It's not quite that simple anymore for a number of reasons.  I wonder if the school system would do some remapping that might decrease the number of students at South and shift them to West.  Just a thought

not a chance.

 

In reality, there should only be 2 schools in the county- South Caldwell and an HHS/West combo school. I doubt I will ever see that happen in my lifetime......it guess its possible though.

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On 11/14/2018 at 12:00 PM, Chris Hughes said:

If I were to think out loud a bit at coaches who I think have the pedigree, and more importantly the stature, skills, and know-how to rebuild this program, that list would look a bit like this; (and for the record, none of these guys have shown interest, its just me thinking aloud). 

1. Joe Glass (He has flirted with this job in the past and he would demand that the players buy in and do things his way, I think you would see immediate results taking them in a positive direction.)

2. Butch Carter (He's won big in Caldwell County before and I would throw everything I had at him to get him to return home.  I think he's another coach that would get instant results.)

3. Adrian Snow (I know that they've reached out to him before and I would do so again.  Snow is one of the best in the state and has experience in that region as he did a great job at Watauga)

4. Martin Samek (Look at the job he's done at Parkland, now I don't think he would necessarily be interested in W.C., but I sure would make a call and ask.  He's from Western PA in an area not to different from Caldwell, I think he would thrive up there and he did coach in the South and Western Piedmont regions before in Gaston County and at St. Stephens.)

5. Joe Pinyan (He's out of a job at Carson and his leadership style and power running attack would do well in Caldwell County, and he certainly brings a championship pedigree.)

6. Mike Helms (He's been a winner everywhere and I know he's itching to get back into coaching.  He may be misunderstood on a personal level, has had some high profile trouble, and may appear to have some baggage, but I know for a fact that he is a great football coach, and I know that kids love him and would play hard for him, and he would win.)

7. Allen Whittenburg (He's a coach I would not be surprised to hear got a shot at this job, he's got experience and I think he's a far better coach that his record would indicate.  I also love son's of coaches, they know how to get it done)

8. Tom Eanes (Another coach I would call immediately if I were AD Stephen McMasters would be this fellow, we've seen how quickly he turned Bandys around and his track record for rebuilding has been remarkable.)

9. Randal Gusler (He just hit the 100-win mark in Statesville and you never know, maybe he would want a new challenge?  I don't know, just thinking out load, but he would do great in the foothills.)

10. George Coltharp (He played up the road at Appalachian State, he has had a good run of coaching in the East, and knowing his mindset and how he interacts with players, coaches, and parents, and having been an administrator as well, he has the strong mental makeup to be able to thrive at a job like this.)

Allen Whittenburg is already at WC. 

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25 minutes ago, bigdawg_33 said:

I appreciate the kind words for coach Holman from you Chris. He is a awesome man and leader, no matter what the administration at WC thinks. Good luck filling that position. It's gonna get worse. We are moving asap!

bigdawg_33, 

I've spoken with the administrators at West and trust me when I say it, they do care about Holman, and thought very highly of his abilities, and furthermore, letting him go from the head coaching position was a hard decision.  Athletic Director Stephen McMasters has become very good friends with Holman and he told me that this decision was "gut-wrenching", but it was a decision that they all (he and principal Craig Styron) felt needed to happen.  Understanding the uphill challenges that Holman has had in regards to his health, and how it has taken his eye off of the ball of coaching, it was something they felt was in the best interest of the kids.

Holman is still employed by the school and will remain employed as long as he chooses, but I can guarantee you that he's been contacted by a lot of schools who have inquired about his services as a defensive coordinator.  I'm not sure if he'll get another head coaching opportunity this season or not, but he won't have any shortages of chances to return as a DC. 

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I heard the Administrators wants a coach for the long haul now!! looks like they might have seen their down fall of the past years. How is middle school doing in this area in football!!could this be the time a coach come in here and changes the culture!! They have drop down to a  2A school  now that will help Northwest foothills conference for 2019. They also need to drop playing the top 3a teams for sure!!

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On 1/26/2019 at 8:12 AM, EBborn1911 said:

I heard the Administrators wants a coach for the long haul now!! looks like they might have seen their down fall of the past years. How is middle school doing in this area in football!!could this be the time a coach come in here and changes the culture!! They have drop down to a  2A school  now that will help Northwest foothills conference for 2019. They also need to drop playing the top 3a teams for sure!!

 

The middle school feeding into WC is the same. This is a county school board problem 100%. The school board won't enforce their own rules on students going to the wrong schools when they live out of the district. I live right in middle of town in Lenoir. Right on the Hibriten/WC line. My street is WC, one behind me is HHS. Got plenty of kids in my neighborhood going to HHS that live in WC district. Hell, WLMS (middle school right beside Hibriten) has a bus dropping off at least 20 kids behind my house every day that walk to there homes in WC discrict. And those same ones will go to HHS cause the Caldwell County School Board is nothing but a JOKE when it comes to making these rules and having the boundaries and not enforcing it at all. 

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