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Don Hines

FIKE AND HUNT BANNED FROM PLAYOFFS

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While we did notify the North Carolina High School Athletic Association (NCHSAA) about the incident, we felt strongly enough about the expectation of sportsmanship that we did not submit information about the incident to the NCHSAA for review. We made our own decision following protocol set forth by NCHSAA to end the regular season and self impose the ban on the playoffs. Both teams will also be fined up to $1,000.”

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Not good for our game this week... I wonder if we should even play. Sometime kids take it out on other teams I get them to start something. This has been an odd year with so many teams being thrown out of the playoffs 

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Interesting, both were 3A east right? Not sure how this changes who makes the playoffs and who goes A/AA, but sad to see so many teams out for fighting. 

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36 minutes ago, Rams4life said:

Not good for our game this week... I wonder if we should even play. Sometime kids take it out on other teams I get them to start something. This has been an odd year with so many teams being thrown out of the playoffs 

game against Havelock will be a forfeit..will not play

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Will be interesting to see how the stupid Max Preps computer rankings digests this data - Havelock's now a 10-0 team with the forfeit, while Southern Nash can only win 9 regular season games.  Last I checked Havelock was predicted a number 2 seed in the east and SN number 1. 

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Really sad to see the increasing number of melees between teams in football.  Just too many undisciplined punks playing the game these days.  Players played just as hard if not harder 20-30-40 years ago - so it doesn't mean today's kids are tougher - just more belligerent.  And NO it's not okay to stick up for your punk teammate who gets in a fight on the field. Your job as a sportsman is to avoid unsportsmanlike conduct. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Reynoldsrocks23 said:

So no final word on Conley and South Central?

Not an NCHSAA decision for Hunt and Fike, but a county one. Conley and SC are from a different county, so no word yet. Don't even know if the incident was reported to the NCHSAA since it technically occurred after the game was over. It would be a much bigger story if both of these schools were banned from the playoffs as both are legit contenders in their classifications. 

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18 minutes ago, Ramfan75 said:

Really sad to see the increasing number of melees between teams in football.  Just too many undisciplined punks playing the game these days.  Players played just as hard if not harder 20-30-40 years ago - so it doesn't mean today's kids are tougher - just more belligerent.  And NO it's not okay to stick up for your punk teammate who gets in a fight on the field. Your job as a sportsman is to avoid unsportsmanlike conduct. 

 

I agree but kids are different these days. This is not the norm at all you usually hear about an ineligible player playing more than fighting. Even that has gotten better. Well what’s done is done I don’t think those last two teams were in anyway, someone else will take that spot I am sure their are a few teams on the line. 

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I believe the Independence/Rocky River situation was post game as well.  I dont know whether that decision came from the state or from Charlotte school system.  But if it came from the state I'd say the same thing applies here.

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1 minute ago, Ramfan75 said:

Not an NCHSAA decision for Hunt and Fike, but a county one. Conley and SC are from a different county, so no word yet. Don't even know if the incident was reported to the NCHSAA since it technically occurred after the game was over. It would be a much bigger story if both of these schools were banned from the playoffs as both are legit contenders in their classifications. 

Actually it was they were both fined $1000 by the NCHSAA and banned 

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3 minutes ago, Rams4life said:

Actually it was they were both fined $1000 by the NCHSAA and banned 

NO you are wrong - the decision was made by Wilson County Schools - not the NCHSAA

While we did notify the North Carolina High School Athletic Association (NCHSAA) about the incident, we felt strongly enough about the expectation of sportsmanship that we did not submit information about the incident to the NCHSAA for review. We made our own decision following protocol set forth by NCHSAA to end the regular season and self impose the ban on the playoffs. Both teams will also be fined up to $1,000.

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I don't think it looks too good for Conley or S.Central. Given how quickly the NCHSAA ended the seasons of 4 schools in Charlotte for post game melees - SC and Conley will probably get banned by the NCHSAA too, regardless of what Pitt County Schools does to them. Must be a bitter pill to swallow for South Central - they were undefeated. NIce to see that unsportsmanlike conduct has a price, maybe they will learn from it. 

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I believe a lot of these type issues can be traced back to coaching to a degree. When coaches allow players mouthing in practice. When  pointing  out first downs  are allowed. If penalties we're severe enough much of these type actions woud be eliminated. There was a time when sportsmanship was nearly as important as winning. 

The receiver for the Saints who had planted the cell phone this past Sunday should have had the touchdown taken away and a 15 yard penality imposed. When the NFL allows this type of behavior, they incourage it in our youth. If you couldn't tell I'm a little old school, because I'm a little, no a lot old.

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For the NCHSAA it's not necessarily about the best teams getting into the playoffs, it's about making 💰 money. If what Glenn said is true, and I have no reason to believe that it is not, the NCHSAA sold their control and decision making to Maxpreps to lighten their workload and again to make money.

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3 hours ago, SPRaiders78 said:

I believe a lot of these type issues can be traced back to coaching to a degree. When coaches allow players mouthing in practice. When  pointing  out first downs  are allowed. If penalties we're severe enough much of these type actions woud be eliminated. There was a time when sportsmanship was nearly as important as winning. 

The receiver for the Saints who had planted the cell phone this past Sunday should have had the touchdown taken away and a 15 yard penality imposed. When the NFL allows this type of behavior, they incourage it in our youth. If you couldn't tell I'm a little old school, because I'm a little, no a lot old.

Why does the NFL allow it's players to Celebrate in the end zone after every touchdown? If the acts or behavior of the NFL influences the youth,(Which it does) then why are entertaining acts not allowed in high school football? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious about what you think about that.

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15 minutes ago, HPCBison08 said:

Why does the NFL allow it's players to Celebrate in the end zone after every touchdown? If the acts or behavior of the NFL influences the youth,(Which it does) then why are entertaining acts not allowed in high school football? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious about what you think about that.

NFL gets paid HS don’t, you don’t see it in College either. Nothing more than a Chest bump in the air which is fine. No comparison 

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4 hours ago, Ramfan75 said:

NO you are wrong - the decision was made by Wilson County Schools - not the NCHSAA

While we did notify the North Carolina High School Athletic Association (NCHSAA) about the incident, we felt strongly enough about the expectation of sportsmanship that we did not submit information about the incident to the NCHSAA for review. We made our own decision following protocol set forth by NCHSAA to end the regular season and self impose the ban on the playoffs. Both teams will also be fined up to $1,000.

I stand corrected.  

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1 hour ago, SPRaiders78 said:

For the NCHSAA it's not necessarily about the best teams getting into the playoffs, it's about making 💰 money. If what Glenn said is true, and I have no reason to believe that it is not, the NCHSAA sold their control and decision making to Maxpreps to lighten their workload and again to make money.

No, it’s not.  This post is wayboff especially considering you are a South Point fan.

Two major complaints of coaches were the varying degrees of strength of schedule across the state and the drawing of straws for placement.  We also were allowing a non conference game to be dropped from the official record for playoff seeding purposes due to teams not wanting to play stronger competition.  Once again, the schools came up with the idea to “drop a loss”.

Two schools that spoke out about this were South Point and Shelby which played very tough schedules but could easily be penalized for that schedule when the only seeding criteria was conference finish and record.

If the actual Max Preps poll was being used there would be much less complaints and questions.  Removal if Point differential not only is an issue for a specific team but it can skew their opponents ranking resulting in a ripple effect.

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I dont mind them using a computerized ranking such as maxpreps to determine the wild card bids.  However, I think not taking margin of victory into consideration needs to be changed.  Someone mentioned earlier set the number at 21.  Any victory over 21 points will count the same.  (victory by 21 helps you as much as a victory by 61.)

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On 11/5/2018 at 11:12 PM, HPCBison08 said:

Why does the NFL allow it's players to Celebrate in the end zone after every touchdown? If the acts or behavior of the NFL influences the youth,(Which it does) then why are entertaining acts not allowed in high school football? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious about what you think about that.

Like the NCHSAA, the NFL is all about the dollar. The NFL has not, does not and will not ever care what I think or want.  Listen to the music played in the stadiums, for the youth,  watch the advertisements on TV during the games, for stuff I'll never buy. They are not even concerned about the youth, they just want their money. The NFL knows for the most part they don't make their money off my generation. I'll do a lot of things but I promise you'll never see the day I pay $50 - $150 for a jersey with another man's name on it. Nope aint happening.

If the NFL cared about the youth of this country, they would do lots of things differently. Like nearly everything else in this country, it's about the dollar. You have to have money to survive and turning a profit has to be the primary goal but come on. Ok, I'm through bitchin now.

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13 minutes ago, SPRaiders78 said:

Like the NCHSAA, the NFL is all about the dollar. The NFL has not, does not and will not ever care what I think or want.  Listen to the music played in the stadiums, for the youth,  watch the advertisements on TV during the games, for stuff I'll never buy. They are not even concerned about the youth, they just want their money. The NFL knows for the most part they don't make their money off my generation. I'll do a lot of things but I promise you'll never see the day I pay $50 - $150 for a jersey with another man's name on it. Nope aint happening.

If the NFL cared about the youth of this country, they would do lots of things differently. Like nearly everything else in this country, it's about the dollar. You have to have money to survive and turning a profit has to be the primary goal but come on. Ok, I'm through bitchin now.

We need to give you a Q&A in real time and see how many questions you can answer about the NCHSAA.  I expect it would be very few if any.

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26 minutes ago, btango said:

We need to give you a Q&A in real time and see how many questions you can answer about the NCHSAA.  I expect it would be very few if any.

You are right sir. I'm sure I'd show my ignorance quickly. There are tons and tons about em I don't know. But an organization that is willing to give up it's decision making ability will quickly lose the conference of the people they are suppose to serve. Look at the US House of Representatives. How much confidence and trust does the country have in them? 

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5 hours ago, SPRaiders78 said:

You are right sir. I'm sure I'd show my ignorance quickly. There are tons and tons about em I don't know. But an organization that is willing to give up it's decision making ability will quickly lose the conference of the people they are suppose to serve. Look at the US House of Representatives. How much confidence and trust does the country have in them? 

Decision making?  It was based on conference finish, record, and then a draw of straws.  The schools pushed for something that would show the strength of conferences and schedules.

Note in Max Preps standard poll South Point is 7th and Shelby 3rd.  If the standard poll were used I think you would be very happy with that.  Personally, I think it would be about right.  Under the drawing of straws, SP would be placed with all second place teams.  There record would then determine their spot.  With three losses they would suffer some but those three losses are to really strong teams or larger classifications schools.  The power poll was a way that teams, like Shelby and SP, that play a tough schedule were treated fairly.  The adjustment is screwing that pup.

The problem is the adjustment to Max Preps ranking.  The NCHSAA came out with the removal of the point differential due to complaints from schools (the losers, I am sure) that scores were being ran up and this was the fix.  Next year I am sure they will look at a middle ground.  

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Ok I'm an idiot, moving on from there. How many years has NC had four subdivided divisions? You would think by now they would have been able to figure out the most equitable way of deciding the playoff format. 

South Point was ranked the number two seed in 3AA west on 2016. They had four loses early in the season. Did they deserve that ranking? Heck no they didn't. There were several mountain teams that had to travrl to Belmont. They were upset and felt disrespected. Rightly so. 

The seeding process has changed every year since. This year as I stated eariler, SP on ranked 26th in one of the polls, I don't remember which. Hey they lost three games. All three to pretty good teams but they lost. But they lost three. Lucky i'd say to still be in.

When I was in school, one team from each conference made the playoffs. My senior year, 1978 SP finished 9 - 1. Losing to Shelby 42 - 7 if I remember correctly. Everybody knew win that game go to the playoffs, lose go home. I'd just like to see some consistency.

 

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btango, does the NCHSAA pay you to defend them? I ask this question because you defend them every time something negative is said about them. Do you have a free pass to sit in on all of their closed session meetings and are privy to all their discussions? You also comment on discussions made in the coaches sessions in our FB Association meetings. How are you able to get into these meetings when you are not a FB coach? I'm just curious.

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9 minutes ago, SPRaiders78 said:

Ok I'm an idiot, moving on from there. How many years has NC had four subdivided divisions? You would think by now they would have been able to figure out the most equitable way of deciding the playoff format. 

South Point was ranked the number two seed in 3AA west on 2016. They had four loses early in the season. Did they deserve that ranking? Heck no they didn't. There were several mountain teams that had to travrl to Belmont. They were upset and felt disrespected. Rightly so. 

The seeding process has changed every year since. This year as I stated eariler, SP on ranked 26th in one of the polls, I don't remember which. Hey they lost three games. All three to pretty good teams but they lost. But they lost three. Lucky i'd say to still be in.

When I was in school, one team from each conference made the playoffs. My senior year, 1978 SP finished 9 - 1. Losing to Shelby 42 - 7 if I remember correctly. Everybody knew win that game go to the playoffs, lose go home. I'd just like to see some consistency.

 

I am going to answer these in order.

Spring 2001 group of 1A coaches from smaller eastern NC schools got the NCHSAA to allow 1A to subdivide for the 2001 season.  Next season all classes subdivided.  4A AD told me that every coach was wanting it once 1A had it.  

2016 SP was in the 3A subdivide (small 3A).  They finished second in the conference.  Crest was seeded behind them because they were a two seed but lost to SP head to head.  Tuscola and Pisgah were in a three way tie for first in their split conference and were each seeded behind SP if I remember correctly.  West Rowan was seeded behind SP as they finished third in their conference.  Hibriten was the one seed as they were a conference champion.  Most of the conference champions went big 3A it appears which is what allowed SP to slide into a high seed.

SP second in the conference to one of the best 2A teams in the state.  Lost to a big SC school and a 3A NC school.  That is the goal of using a power poll.  Teams did not want to play the tougher games and teams such as SP and Shelby did not get a fair shake when compared to teams that played very inferior opposition.  

1977 was the first year of a new alignment that brough the Western NCHSAA teams into the NCHSAA.  Conference champions were guaranteed a playoff slot and a few second place teams qualified in 1A, 2A, and 4A. 

In 3A there were 16 conferences so those were the only teams that got in. 

In 2A and 4A there were less than 16 conferences so a second place team would get in from a conference on a rotating basis.  For example the District 7 2A may have been the predetermined conference to have a second place team that season so they had two teams in.  The District 7 second place team could have been the worst second place team in the state but they were guaranteed a slot due to a rotating predetermined format. 

1A had five conferences and had an eight team (three round) playoff.  Five champions and three second place teams qualified for the playoffs. 

1A only had about 35 teams in the classification that played football and around 55 total schools.  4A had about 75.  2A was right at 100.  3A had the most teams that were in a tight enrollment range and had just below 120.

 

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12 minutes ago, Glenn said:

btango, does the NCHSAA pay you to defend them? I ask this question because you defend them every time something negative is said about them. Do you have a free pass to sit in on all of their closed session meetings and are privy to all their discussions? You also comment on discussions made in the coaches sessions in our FB Association meetings. How are you able to get into these meetings when you are not a FB coach? I'm just curious.

I have never been paid a penny by anyone involved in high school sports.  I have tried to be a charitable person to some programs and have always looked at helping youth and veterans as my way to give back as I was once one of each. 

The NCHSAA is nowhere near perfect and I do not agree with many things they do.  A lot of things I do not agree with I find have valid reasons once I look at it deeper but still often think there were better alternatives.  I have spoken out against the NCHSAA many times but when I do I have the correct information and usually alternative ideas.  I have questioned two commissioners hard about issues and one commissioner very delicately.  I have volunteered my services to assist when needed.  Some meetings are closed and some are open.  When you have been around the game over the years you get to know people.  

Just to give you an idea.  The NCHSAA pushes participation.  Why do teams forfeit their playoff spot for often very minor squirmishes.  Students that have issues that may be helped in a team enviroment are more likely to be shunned.  When an eight quarter violation occurs that causes enough forfeits to end a season should it really be forfeits.  How much did that help the varsity on Friday.  I say forfeit the JV game and look at other options than missing the playoffs (head coach remains up top, head coach suspended for playoff game or more than one, school loses home games, if not enough home games their game gate cut goes to the schools they broke the eight quarter rule against).  

People write that the reason the playoffs are subdivided and so many teams make it is because the NCHSAA wants to make more money.  If that is the case why do they repeatedly offer options to the schools to lower the number of state champions and number of teams in the playoffs?  Why do they request 1A and 4A to go to four rounds of playoffs instead of five?  Do they want to make money, of course.  Do I think they sway things the way they want them to go, yes.  I think a lot of decisons they make are misunderstood.  I know a few questionable decisions made recently and possibly others coming forth are made because they are basically bullied by the legislature and their legal council to include outside law firms.  Did you know without giving the NCHSAA any notice that the NC House of Reps changed schools to new conferences one year?  

 

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btango I'm not sure how you and I got into a pissing contest. You undoubtedly have more knowledge on the NCHSAA than I do. Looking back over the thread, it seems your first response to my post comparing the NCHSAA to the NFL, you found offensive. If you disagree with my belief that they are primarily concerned with money, that is definitely your right. Like I said on a different thread about a different subject, I call em like I see em. Sometimes I don't see to good.

The things I've said on this thread are not in anyway in defense of South Point. If things work out the way some think SP will have to travel to Canton if they advance to the second round. When the season started, I thought they would be lucky to win six or seven games. I'm simply commenting on the way I see the seeding system working. If your primary goal is to prove you know more about the workings of the NCHSAA, mission accomplished.

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3 hours ago, SPRaiders78 said:

Ok I'm an idiot, moving on from there. How many years has NC had four subdivided divisions? You would think by now they would have been able to figure out the most equitable way of deciding the playoff format. 

South Point was ranked the number two seed in 3AA west on 2016. They had four loses early in the season. Did they deserve that ranking? Heck no they didn't. There were several mountain teams that had to travrl to Belmont. They were upset and felt disrespected. Rightly so. 

The seeding process has changed every year since. This year as I stated eariler, SP on ranked 26th in one of the polls, I don't remember which. Hey they lost three games. All three to pretty good teams but they lost. But they lost three. Lucky i'd say to still be in.

When I was in school, one team from each conference made the playoffs. My senior year, 1978 SP finished 9 - 1. Losing to Shelby 42 - 7 if I remember correctly. Everybody knew win that game go to the playoffs, lose go home. I'd just like to see some consistency.

 

I agree with what you are saying but I don't believe one team from each conference should be allowed in the playoffs. I mean that's terrible, I'm glad I wasn't old enough to witness those days. A team with a 7-3 or 8-2 record sat at home during the opening of the playoffs. That's not fair & very sad for so many teams who have suffered because of two or three losses.

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3 hours ago, Glenn said:

btango, does the NCHSAA pay you to defend them? I ask this question because you defend them every time something negative is said about them. Do you have a free pass to sit in on all of their closed session meetings and are privy to all their discussions? You also comment on discussions made in the coaches sessions in our FB Association meetings. How are you able to get into these meetings when you are not a FB coach? I'm just curious.

Aside from being one of my most trusted and knowledgeable advisors to what I do here at CP and essentially being like my right-hand man, btango has been involved in and around high school athletics for many decades. 

He routinely has traveled with me to games all over the state, and the nation for that matter, and is known by many high school football coaches in the state and has got the ear of many coaches and media persons alike. 

Like myself, he has been welcomed into the meetings at the NC Football Coaches Meetings in February, and he’s routinely been to NCHSAA board of directors meetings in Chapel Hill where we’ve both sat in with former commissioners Charlie Adams, Davis Whitfield, and now Que Tucker. 

In addition, he’s been very close with the Shrine Bowl and can typically be found either in the press box or on the sidelines at about every Shrine Bowl. 

He’s also been very active in the Charlotte area and has sat in on public advisory boards for CMS back in the early 2000’s. 

Other than myself, few are as tied into NC Prep Sports like btango. 

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2 hours ago, SPRaiders78 said:

btango I'm not sure how you and I got into a pissing contest. You undoubtedly have more knowledge on the NCHSAA than I do. Looking back over the thread, it seems your first response to my post comparing the NCHSAA to the NFL, you found offensive. If you disagree with my belief that they are primarily concerned with money, that is definitely your right. Like I said on a different thread about a different subject, I call em like I see em. Sometimes I don't see to good.

The things I've said on this thread are not in anyway in defense of South Point. If things work out the way some think SP will have to travel to Canton if they advance to the second round. When the season started, I thought they would be lucky to win six or seven games. I'm simply commenting on the way I see the seeding system working. If your primary goal is to prove you know more about the workings of the NCHSAA, mission accomplished.

A lot of info is put out as fact that is not but people run it on down the line as fact.  A lot of statements are opinions and repeated as facts.  

Your statement that all the NCHSAA cares about it is the money like the NFL I do not agree with.  They obviously care about the money but they could open up in a lot of ways that would bring in more money but try to keep it under some control, right or wrong.

Never take any posts on a message board personal.  It is never personal from me.  I just like the record to be set straight.

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Much appreciated, Hughes.

No issues with Glenn.  I think we both enjoy the banter.  He coaches at a quality program!  Much admiration for a guy that has worked in the game for so many years.

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I totally agree. There is no animosity toward btango or any other person on this site. We all have different opinions and we all see the facts from different perspectives. As a coach I view things as they impact my program. We all say things to get the people we are responding to a little rilled up. To get their blood  circulating a little faster early in the morning. Our coaching staff does this quite frequently every day. But, in the end we all laugh it off and go to practice as friends. We actually get a big laugh out of it. Friends can do this. the same applies here. Like I told Chris one day when he came by the school. I try to instigate conversation on his site because I want to help him keep his site alive. I also told btango that I would like to meet him when we go to the FB Coaches Association meeting in Feb. 

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33 minutes ago, Glenn said:

I totally agree. There is no animosity toward btango or any other person on this site. We all have different opinions and we all see the facts from different perspectives. As a coach I view things as they impact my program. We all say things to get the people we are responding to a little rilled up. To get their blood  circulating a little faster early in the morning. Our coaching staff does this quite frequently every day. But, in the end we all laugh it off and go to practice as friends. We actually get a big laugh out of it. Friends can do this. the same applies here. Like I told Chris one day when he came by the school. I try to instigate conversation on his site because I want to help him keep his site alive. I also told btango that I would like to meet him when we go to the FB Coaches Association meeting in Feb. 

I'll make sure you get the opportunity to meet him.  Coincidentally Glenn, I'm on the phone with your head coach as we speak! 

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The NCHSAA really shouldn’t need money. Have you seen their non profit end of year balance sheet. Damn. Never was like that when Chapel Hill ran the show and then went non profit.

Edited by GDG

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