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2017 NCHSAA Realignment

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South Carolina Super Ten Preseason Wrestling Polls


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#1 Jim Baxter

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 01:47 PM

Hope to see all of the SCV patrons over here. We have purchased the domain name DeepSouthWrestling.net and will begin creating wrestling's own unique place as we go. In the mean time, here is a look at the 2017-2018 Preseason Super Ten Wrestling Polls.

 

1. Eastside - 4A

2. Riverbluff - 5A

3. Rock Hill - 5A

4. West Oak - 3A

5. Fort Dorchester - 5A

6. BHP - 4A

7. Fort Mill - 5A

8. Dorman - 5A

9. Hilton Head - 4A

10. Chapin - 4A

 

Looking In - Mauldin 5A, Battery Creek 3A, Goose Creek 5A, Ashley Ridge 5A, Lugoff Elgin 4A, Bamberg- Ehrhardt 1A-2A, Indian Land 3A



#2 Sbutler

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:45 PM

Your Top 5 Could use a shuffle:

1) Fort Dorchester- They return 4 individual state champions from last year and won what I consider to be the true State Championship, which is the individual tourney points. Add in some strong additions, along with with some kids who were close to top 3 last year and I would pick Fort D over any team in the State everyone staying healthy.

Then I'd probably have to go:
2) Eastside
3) RH
4) RB
5) AR Maybe. Would have to look a little deeper.

#3 Jim Baxter

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:39 PM

Your Top 5 Could use a shuffle:

1) Fort Dorchester- They return 4 individual state champions from last year and won what I consider to be the true State Championship, which is the individual tourney points. Add in some strong additions, along with with some kids who were close to top 3 last year and I would pick Fort D over any team in the State everyone staying healthy.

Then I'd probably have to go:
2) Eastside
3) RH
4) RB
5) AR Maybe. Would have to look a little deeper.


Great feedback. I like the old way of winnkg state with individual points. Back in my day we didn't even have a "team" duals tourny

#4 Sbutler

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:39 PM

Exactly. In my day, team who scored most points at individual State Tournament was your State Champion. There was no State Duals, which nothing wrong with them, just not what I use to determine the best team in the state. Just like the NCAA's!

When looking at placers returning , Fort D and Eastside are 1 and 2, Rock Hill and River Bluff, I feel fall right behind those programs, and AR would be right there for sure if Trephan hadn't gone to Blair( Which is an awesome accomplishment/opportunity) and still could be without him.

I'm sure there is going to be s surprise team in there.

#5 JTW

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:05 AM

I'll take RH #1 for obvious reasons! If we stay healthy, our lineup will be exciting. Fort D and River Bluff roster has some studs. FM has talent and good coaches. I'm not sure what Dorman and BS have this year. Hillcrest is definitely back in the discussion. They have some solid wrestlers to go with their couple of studs. Westside is building a good program. Several of his kids put in work over the summer. I don't know enough about Byrnes, Lexington, Stratford, AR or Summerville to make a guess on their season.

4a- Eastside and BHP should be the teams to beat in upstate. Both these programs had kids going to Fargo and Duals. Return a lot of great wrestlers.

My list looks like this:
1- Rock Hill
2- Fort D
3- Eastside
4- River Bluff
5- Fort Mill
6- BHP
7- Hillcrest
8- Chapin

#6 CarolinaHawkeyeFan

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:24 PM

SButler, I agree with your list but couldn't disagree more with your reasoning. First, foremost, and most importantly the "team winner" of the individual tournament is no longer recognized as the team champion by the SCHSL, no matter what Tommy Bell has to say - only the winner of the dual playoffs is the team champion. Why is this important? Because it directly affects how coaches coach and wrestlers wrestle at the individual tournament.
 
Because the UNOFFICIAL team winner of the individual tournament is not recognized, the majority of the coaches that I know do not encourage their athletes to wrestle for bonus point wins in Anderson - they just tell their wrestlers to win and move on. There is no bumping of wrestlers to get the best match-up nor wrestlers feeding off of their teammates victory. Team momentum is non-existent. It is exclusively an individual event.
 
Further, the individual tournament is not a level playing field. Say a weight class has 5 really talented guys and they are all in the upper or lower state qualifier. One doesn't get to go to states thus denying his team points that he might have gotten. Say the strength of the state is skewed more toward upper or lower in any given year. A team in the "weaker" area has a better chance of qualifying more wrestlers for states giving that team a distinct advantage. This used to happen quite often in the 1980's when the individual tournament decided the team champions.
 
There are some states that recognize both a dual winner and individual winner, but ours is not one of those. If the SCHSL decided to adopt this format, or the coaches association decided to officially recognize a team champion in Anderson then fine, as I'm sure the coaches from the more dominant schools would encourage bonus point wins just like college coaches. Until that time, and I am speaking directly to Tommy Bell, the "winner" of the individual tournament does NOT get a team championship ring unless they were able to get the first place trophy at the duals.
 
All that said, I agree that FD are probably the pre season favorites, but I would caution that 4 returning champs does not guarantee a dual victory. Through the 90's a team that had several individual champions could win a dual title with a team that lacked balance, but that does not seem to be the case any longer. River Bluff showed last year that it could be won with 1 champ, a couple of near champs, and good role players. I believe Hillcrest won the duals one year without any individual champs, though I could be wrong. Balance throughout a line-up is more important in a dual competition, and that is another reason the duals crown the true team champs.

 

It would be great if Eastside and FD dueled each other this year. That's a match I would buy on pay-per-view.



#7 Sbutler

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:23 PM

I know opinions on the individual vs dual champion would vary, and I'm ok disagreeing on that. I disagree about momentum...see PSU at NCAA's this year. I think the opposite... I think you can have a bunch of B guys and win a state dual........ I think to win the traditional tournament your guys having to be peeking at the right time, bigger stage, more pressure! In a dual , a team can capitalize exploit a few holes in another line up, and that can be all the difference. In the individual a teams studs are having to beat other top guys to advance and score points, I think that is a better assessment of what teams are the cream of the crop. There is a reason that is how it is decided in the NCAA's!

I agree Hawkeye fan...... I wish there were efforts to get some really fan pleasing marquee match ups to reality. I know scheduling etc is difficult, but still possible.

I believe FD will be at Southern Slam this year, but will probably be minus some of their best kids due to football, so it won't be an ideal measuring stick. Would love to see FD, RB , RH, Eastside in a quad match. I'd be there!

#8 CarolinaHawkeyeFan

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:49 PM

"I think you can have a bunch B guys and win a state dual..." Exactly why it is a better indicator of who has the BEST TEAM - balance throughout the squad; whereas, state individuals just demonstrates who has bigger firepower at certain weights. There are no tactics employed or team working together at individuals. It is not a team event. It is not always a level playing field. And please do not compare college to high school - apples and oranges.

 

Give out an official team title at the individual tournament and I bet you will see the dual champs more-often-than-not also winning individuals as coaches will highly encourage bonus points; even though, that may jeopardize an individuals chance at winning a title. In my opinion the dual format for the team title is the best, and quite possibly the only, thing the SCHSL has done for wrestling.

 

Now let's encourage FD and Eastside to enter the same dual tournament this year.... maybe Wildcat Duals.



#9 Jim Baxter

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:47 PM

I'll take RH #1 for obvious reasons! If we stay healthy, our lineup will be exciting. Fort D and River Bluff roster has some studs. FM has talent and good coaches. I'm not sure what Dorman and BS have this year. Hillcrest is definitely back in the discussion. They have some solid wrestlers to go with their couple of studs. Westside is building a good program. Several of his kids put in work over the summer. I don't know enough about Byrnes, Lexington, Stratford, AR or Summerville to make a guess on their season.

4a- Eastside and BHP should be the teams to beat in upstate. Both these programs had kids going to Fargo and Duals. Return a lot of great wrestlers.

My list looks like this:
1- Rock Hill
2- Fort D
3- Eastside
4- River Bluff
5- Fort Mill
6- BHP
7- Hillcrest
8- Chapin

That's not a bad list either. Not a lot different. And I agree, RH is going to be stout if they are healthy. I just like Eastside in that top spot.



#10 CarolinaHawkeyeFan

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:14 AM

But nobody can know - totally fantasy discussion. These teams do not compete against each other often. Wouldn't it be great if Jim Baxter and Deep South "Wrestling" started a dual tournament that invited these top teams, or even an individual tournament like SButler enjoys? Get 'em all in one gym and let's see who is the best.

 

You know, SButler, an all classification state individual tournament would go a long way to solving this. You could even offer a team trophy....



#11 Jim Baxter

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:33 AM

But nobody can know - totally fantasy discussion. These teams do not compete against each other often. Wouldn't it be great if Jim Baxter and Deep South "Wrestling" started a dual tournament that invited these top teams, or even an individual tournament like SButler enjoys? Get 'em all in one gym and let's see who is the best.

You know, SButler, an all classification state individual tournament would go a long way to solving this. You could even offer a team trophy....


I like that idea of the duals tournament; question is, would these teams show up?

#12 JTW

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

I remember a couple of recent state championships that RH won over teams that had better individual placement in Anderson. 2014 RH beat Summerville in the Duals championship. Summerville had 5 individual state champs (Sass, Daniel Smith, Van Slooten, Wood and Collins) and RH had one (Bell) or 2015 when Fort D had Tyre Wright, both Parkers, AJ Alford, the Hutchinson brothers, Chisolm and JOHN Simpson. They won the individual tournament but lost to RH two weeks before in the state Duals championship.

Should be a great year! Definitely several teams that could walk away as champs this year!

#13 Sportsfanatic

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:27 PM

Why is Hillcrest ranked so high on everyone's list? I think they have a lot of growing before they are ranked top 10? Honestly, they don't have anymore talent (maybe even less) than their other 5A contender Woodmont. There are several guys up and coming on that team. They will be a "game changer" that everyone is totally overlooking in my opinion. They also have a transfer in from JL Mann as well from what the word on the street is. Maybe only had one good showing at individual state from there last year but they are going to be a powerhouse in the next 1-2 years. Just saying.



#14 SADULAEV

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 10:47 AM

Might be a team or two missing.



#15 Jim Baxter

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:54 PM

Might be a team or two missing.


Give us some feedback! No judging here brother

#16 BuckkillerSC

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:06 PM

JB, your first top 10 post was pretty good. Then everyone seems to completely dismiss West-Oak. Yes, West-Oak lost a few hammers but many hammers have stepped up. Please don't forget that West-Oak beat Rock Hill last year fairly easy. The top 2 of any SC wrestling poll should have West-Oak or Eastside top two. I think there will be some surprises for everyone this year when they wrestle WO. 



#17 TheMasonWay

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:58 PM

buckkillersc and WO got that stud transfer in from Pennsylvania!! They will be as tough as anyone in the state



#18 BuckkillerSC

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:26 AM

buckkillersc and WO got that stud transfer in from North Carolina!! They will be as tough as anyone in the state

 

Man, that was a secret.........lol 



#19 antiquefan

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:09 PM

What is the nc kids name?

#20 Lowcountrywrestlingfan

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 08:14 AM

1. Fort D (Too much fire power this year.  4 returning state champs and a very good rising 9th grader at 106)

2. Eastside (9 returning SQ)

3. West Oak (8 returning SQ and always a tough squad)

4. BHP (8 returning SQ and Mansfield is a BEAST!)

5. Cane Bay (9 returning SQ with 3 placers)

6. River Bluff

7. Rock Hill (Only have 4 returning SQ's.  I think this will be a rebuilding year for RH.  #7 is being generous in my opinion but you can never count out Rock Hill)

8. Fort Mill

9. Hilton Head

10. Hillcrest

 

Looking In:

Dorman, Boiling Springs, Lugoff Elgin, Chapin, Batter Creek (Lost Coach Day), Ashley Ridge, Stratford



#21 Revfrank4

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:37 PM

If you read between the lines, every top 10 has a bias towards whoever is making the post. It is natural to move up your team and region, regardless of the merit. I would love to see more coaches post on here. With that said, here is my way too early top 10.

 

1. Eastside - More balance than Fort. Not as many heavy hitters, but not giving up bonus points to much of anyone.

 

2. Fort Dorchester - Loaded with talent, and good coaching. Should win 5A.

 

3. BHP - Very good 4A team with lots of returners, including Mansfield. 3 & 4 could be interchangeable.

 

4. Rock Hill - Another team loaded with talent. Shot themselves in the foot for a state title in my opinion. Maybe too much isn't always a good thing. 

 

5. West Oak - best in 3A by a long shot. BC without Coach Day & some talent will face a drop off. WO runs away with 3A. 

 

6. Lugoff Elgin - Lot's of youth and some holes to fill but talent in abundance with a winning culture. 

 

7. Chapin - Could go very deep again this year. 

 

8. River Bluff - Good balance with some returning studs. Curious to see how that region plays out with DF & WK shake up.

 

9. Fort Mill - Lot's of holes to fill with some very good returners

 

10. Hilton Head - Lot's of returning firepower

 

Looking In (In No Particular Order) -  Dorman 5A, Hillcrest 5A, Stratford 5A, Summerville 5A, Goose Creek 5A, Cane Bay 4A, Beaufort 4A, Battery Creek 3A, Bamberg 2A, Cheraw 2A



#22 BIGTIMEWRESTLER123

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:42 PM

1. Eastside
2. Rock Hill
3. WO
4. Fort D
5. BHP
6. Fort mill
7. River bluff
8. Chapin
9. Dorman
10. Ashley Ridge
Let's remember that Rock hill beat fort D 41-21 last year at the battery creek duals and Rock Hill only loses 2 kids that won but I'm sure has some tough replacements. Only had 2 bonus point wins by John parker and Aluyan. I was expecting Fort D to beat RH last year. But let's remember Parker and Reynolds had a OT Match in the finals and can go any way. Also Love, Mills, Simpson didn't get a chance to wrestle at state. All were ranked! 5A will be the best finals.




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