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2017 NCHSAA Realignment

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#1 Wrigley

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:41 AM

Does anyone have a solid handle on exactly how these are put together? In addition, as understand it strength of schedule plays a roll in the ranking. Was it not a bit unfair to put this system in place for the coming year since all schedules are already finalized? 



#2 Chris Hughes

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:08 AM

Not a fan period. The one thing they did state at the NCHSAA meeting was that margin of victory is included in the algorithm, which indirectly means that running up the score and embarrassing teams is accepted and required for advancement in their rankings.

Not a fan of preaching sportsmanship a mandating a running clock on one hand yet having margin of victory and running it up a factor in their own endorsed ranking system.

I don't care how good your algorithm is, a system based solely on numbers coming from a computer in California that never see's a minute of the games isn't for me. I'll take a human element any day over this but when your company strokes a 5-6 figure check to the association, you get to push your rankings.

#3 MHSblueDevilsARE#1

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 10:26 AM

I feel like HS football is getting closer and closer to having a real need for a playoff selection committee.. like the NCAA went to after moving from having the computer decide everything. Not sure if that would even be feesably possible at the HS level given how many teams there are state wide (all classes combined).

#4 Chris Hughes

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 10:32 AM

I feel like HS football is getting closer and closer to having a real need for a playoff selection committee.


Funny you say that. I asked that question directly to Que Tucker and she said that it has been discussed, then she jokingly asked if I wanted to lead that committee and I said absolutely.

#5 CatholicCougs14

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 10:50 AM

NCHSAA is in bed with max preps so of course theyre gonna use it. $$$$$$$$


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#6 BlueDevilsBiggestFan

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:35 AM

My personal opinion on Maxpreps is I don't mind the site itself but I wish Maxpreps had Regional Headquarters like Ex: Altanta is the South East Region Headquarters then have smallers offices in couple towns like In NC they should have offices in CLT, Asheville, Triad/Tringle are, Wilmington and Raleigh and those office cover that specific area

I don't know if l this would hapen but If it did, It would help Maxpreps become a better site and better source to use for HS nation Wide!

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#7 MHSblueDevilsARE#1

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

Funny you say that. I asked that question directly to Que Tucker and she said that it has been discussed, then she jokingly asked if I wanted to lead that committee and I said absolutely.


Haha I actually mentioned that idea to coach van horn down at Independence a couple weeks prior to the NCHSAA making these changes... and you were one of the names I thought of as being very qualified to do that.

#8 btango

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 12:24 PM

I like this better than seeding by conference place and overall record. Reward someone for playing a ball buster schedule! If Shelby has two losses, one an undefeated SC 4A team and the other to an undefeated 3A team I think they should placed above a team that went undefeated against a bunch of chumps.

#9 GDG

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 01:07 PM

I assume the NCHSAA feels more comfortable letting a independent site use a computer ranking than having local bodies be subject to scrutiny. I can understand it but I'm sure it's very costly which in some way or another gets passed on to schools or at the gate. As for running the score up and adding the running clock, neither is necessary. I would like to see a rule that no team can play up or down more than one classification. Is this not why teams have classifications for playoffs?

#10 FHS1985

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 01:14 PM

In basketball this past season Maxpreps rankings were used as a tiebreaker for seeding (after head to head and overall schedule).  That seems fair enough to me.  A few years ago when FHS was getting the top seed come football playoff time there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth because the seeding did not take into account "strength of schedule" somehow.  The NCHSAA has apparently been responsive to those complaints and attempted to make allowances for rankings for teams with similar records.


Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

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#11 twinpeeks

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

nchsaa always screwing something up



#12 btango

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 03:10 PM

I assume the NCHSAA feels more comfortable letting a independent site use a computer ranking than having local bodies be subject to scrutiny. I can understand it but I'm sure it's very costly which in some way or another gets passed on to schools or at the gate. As for running the score up and adding the running clock, neither is necessary. I would like to see a rule that no team can play up or down more than one classification. Is this not why teams have classifications for playoffs?


They do not let teams play up or down as based on the realignment numbers st time the classifications are structured. A hardship could change that but dropping would cause some regulations against them.

#13 twinpeeks

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 03:25 PM

chris,how will they seed conf.champs? by record or by maxpreps



#14 GDG

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 05:08 PM

They do not let teams play up or down as based on the realignment numbers st time the classifications are structured. A hardship could change that but dropping would cause some regulations against them.


I should have been more clear. My opinion is during the nonconference schedule I am apposed to scheduling more than one classification from each other. Ex: 2A can only schedule a 1A or 3A, but not a 4A school. 3A cannot schedule a 1A.

#15 btango

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:02 PM

Not in agreement with that. Shelby and South Point along with some others in 2A can play with 4A teams. No Shelby v Crest game for about 15 years? Blasphemy.

There are some 3A schools that cannot beat 1A teams. Let the schools handle the scheduling.

#16 Wrigley

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:28 PM

Mixed emotions on it. I agree that SOS should play a factor and i believe for schools like Mallard Creek and Butler this should make scheduling much easier in the future.  I have always thought that you had to " see" high school football to evaluate it. Too many variables to use straight computer rankings and I am not sure MAx Preps is even the best option. Always thought the Simmons guy was pretty close and even our own Hokie has started to tighten up his as well. Couple thoughts-

 

- If your gonna use the computer I really think there needs to be 100% transparency in what goes into the rating. Let the coaches know upfront how you get a better score and what hurts the most.

 

- For example...how much does it weight a win over a class or two above you and how much does a loss to a class below hurt?

 

- If your gonna do it then give the coaches and AD one year warning. Hardly fair for schedules to be done and then turn around and say SOS is a determining factor in where you will be seeded.

 

With the ability to get virtually every game on tape now it would seem to me like using the computer as part of the seeding along with a 6 person human component would be a nice mix and the best way to do it but I doubt it would ever happen.

 

For the record ...when I look for HS football info, Max Preps is almost always the last option.  



#17 GDG

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:43 PM

It's true these teams in 1A can play with 3A. Yes Shelby can play with about anyone. But these are exceptions to most classifications. Safety for me is a concern. 1A schools will never get enough big kids to compete with 2500 ADM schools.

#18 Chris Hughes

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:07 PM

Safety for me is a concern. 1A schools will never get enough big kids to compete with 2500 ADM schools.


Except Wallace-Rose Hill that has been handling some good 4A teams with ease in recent years. But of course they've been the exception.

#19 btango

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:08 AM

Schools should know who they can and cannot compete with.

Doing the poll for the college football playoff would be much easier than doing 224 NC prep teams spread over four classes.

#20 GDG

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:01 AM

Simmons would be very good at this. I say give him the $75,000 or whatever it cost. Becomes local and he can spend that money in North Carolina. He can start with beer and wings for me, Wrigley, Btango, and Chris.

#21 btango

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:14 AM

I have pushed for a poll for years and Simmons was the guy I always cited but I am pretty sure he lives in Ohio now.

#22 Chris Hughes

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:57 AM

I have pushed for a poll for years and Simmons was the guy I always cited but I am pretty sure he lives in Ohio now.

 

You are thinking about Drew Pasteur, he's the one that moved.  I have no idea where Brian Simmons lives.  



#23 cltfootball

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:19 AM

I think it would be interesting to see how this years playoffs would look with the information for next year, using the realignment and smaller bracket and using MaxPreps rankings but with last years results.

 

Take from MaxPreps:

 

Computer Rankings 

We do not poll coaches, sportswriters, or fans. Nor does our staff make any judgments on the merits of any individual team. Prior season history, school size, and comments on message boards are not considered in the MaxPreps Computer Rankings. 

The system utilizes the huge number of game results stored in the MaxPreps database. Generally, the more a team wins the higher the ranking, but the system takes into account quality wins (against other highly ranked opponents) and strength of schedule.

For example, a team's ranking is hurt more by losing to a team that is ranked below them verses a team ranked ahead.

Other factors that will affect the rankings are times when MaxPreps has incomplete or inaccurate information. We will correct errors when they are reported to us. If we are missing a score, report it to us on the team's MaxPreps page. If we are missing a game on the schedule, send us a correction request.

Playoff wins are weighed higher compared to a regular season game. 

Movement indicates the up or down movement within the rankings when compared to our previously published rankings.



#24 Chris Hughes

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:28 AM

But what it can't compute is that one team who is traditionally low in the rankings but has a once in a decade or two kind of year, a season where they are able to compete with and beat the big dogs, but because they started so low in the rankings, they're not moved up as fast or as accurately as they should be and may be ranked much lower at seasons end than they should be.

This has happened many of times with the BCS rankings system as well.

#25 btango

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 05:17 PM

You are thinking about Drew Pasteur, he's the one that moved. I have no idea where Brian Simmons lives.


Yes. You are correct. Drew was good. Simmons would be my choice over MaxPreps I think.




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