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2017 NCHSAA Realignment

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When is it too late?


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#1 Red1Rooster

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:37 AM

Just wondering what the opinion is about how late a new head coaching hire is too late?

 

Obviously the earlier the better for the coach and his new program, but is there a point where, to have any real success, he absolutely has to be in place?

 

 



#2 Mustang sally

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:40 AM

I would say anytime after Feb.  Is too late 



#3 Steelers71

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:09 PM

This year it really depends on when you have spring practice scheduled. If you're in a coaching transition now and you have opted for the 10 days in late May you are probably ok waiting. Otherwise your window for spring ball is April 3rd-May 5th. Those schools need to love quickly to get a HC in place for practice. Of course all hires depend on what teaching spot is available at the time.

#4 Reeducator

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM

In most places where athletics is at least organized right, the turn of the new semester is the ideal time as Steelers71 said. However as schools make new selections, the places where coaches leave are left scrambling to find guys. Usually February - March is the time where the scramble happens. Gives schools time to see what teaching positions they will have (teachers turnover happens at the turn of the semester). That way you can widen the pool of coaches you can select and still give them time to transition before spring workouts begin. 

 

For those less organized places, it can happen whenever. I know a HS head coach that was hired for his position THE WEEK OF THE NC COACHES CLINIC. (3rd week in July) 



#5 Steelers71

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:13 PM

Getting hired the week of the coaches clinic is a tough time. And it has happened quite a few times over the years. I also know of a couple of coaches who quit the day before practice started. 



#6 Reeducator

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:57 PM

Bad situation trying to replace those guys that do that and super bad for the kids.



#7 Vik-Val 86

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:06 PM

I've notice that there has been a lot of coach changes since the football season ended. Is this the norm every year or is this one of those unusual seasons? I've only been on this site since last fall but notice a lot of coaches leaving out from one team to another.

#8 Steelers71

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:40 PM

Unfortunately it is becoming the norm in this state. I believe it is a combination of leaving jobs for more money or control, or both. And also some coaches leave for lack of support from administrators to build a program. Or fired for too many losses. Like winning 11 games in a season and it's not enough to make fans happy. Lots of things. Definitely a lot of turnover this year. And more to come.

#9 Reeducator

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:08 PM

Lots of the best and brightest are headed for the border . Gone are the days of making moves so you can be good in athletics. Coaches often scramble for the best situation athletically and for their families. Even the old heads are finding that the rules are different now. I really don't see the days where a coach stays for 20 years at one place coming back.

#10 Wrigley

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:30 PM

Not just a North Carolpina deal. Jeff Herron coaches at Grayson (Atl) one year. Stacked team and wins title. Takes TL Hanna job for huge check. Its his 8th HC gig.

Georgia going through ptetty big turnover and they pay $$ .I think its more of a societal deal as much as anything else. Not just coaching. Its rare you see anyone stick with same job for 20+ years.

#11 btango

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:51 PM

Problem in GA is somewhat like NC regarding retirement and working.  In GA you can get retirement but if you continue working you only get a portion of standard pay, I think 50%.  If the pay at Grayson is $90k he is making $45k which is about $70k less than he will make at Hanna. With his GA retirement I expect he can live very well in Anderson.  I think he is in his late fifties.  If he puts in ten years he will be fully vested in the SC retirement program.  



#12 btango

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:53 PM

I think for a NC coach is to get twenty years and then seriously compare what doing another ten years and heading to SC for ten would return you long term as compared to leaving at twenty years and getting in the SC system for twenty.  Both put a coach coming straight out of college as retiring at 62 with a great retirement plan.



#13 Wrigley

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 08:26 AM

Problem in GA is somewhat like NC regarding retirement and working. In GA you can get retirement but if you continue working you only get a portion of standard pay, I think 50%. If the pay at Grayson is $90k he is making $45k which is about $70k less than he will make at Hanna. With his GA retirement I expect he can live very well in Anderson. I think he is in his late fifties. If he puts in ten years he will be fully vested in the SC retirement program.


Yup....that is not a bad deal

#14 btango

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:52 AM

A couple names have come to mind when thinking about coaches leaving in July. Cannot respect a coach who does so unless it is an emergency decision, but most of the time it isn't. 

 

CMS coach is making $50k with ten years in the system.  Coach at a big time high school in SC leaves in June.  SC school offers NC coach the job along with AD position for $108k a year.  He just more than doubled his pay which will also reflect his retirement.  I cannot fault a man for making a move like that.  Even if it is $80k.  $30k is a huge amount of yearly income when you are making $50k.  Huge!  Especially if the wife is a teacher or paid about that amount or less and they have children.



#15 Wrigley

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:00 AM

CMS coach is making $50k with ten years in the system. Coach at a big time high school in SC leaves in June. SC school offers NC coach the job along with AD position for $108k a year. He just more than doubled his pay which will also reflect his retirement. I cannot fault a man for making a move like that. Even if it is $80k. $30k is a huge amount of yearly income when you are making $50k. Huge! Especially if the wife is a teacher or paid about that amount or less and they have children.


Its a life altering increase. Every situation is different.

#16 Wrigley

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:56 PM

Every situation is different. I just don't like running out on kids in the summer like some coaches have in the past. 

 

Yes, and then there have been others who have been fighting life threatening medical issues who are fired two weeks before the season. My point is that while I believe the vast majority of educators are in it for the kids and not the $$ it is in the end a job. One that feeds, clothes and provides shelter for families and in NC at least it is one with almost zero job security.

 

If its December or if its June and an opportunity arises to improve the quality of life for your family with an increase in pay of 75-100% and all other things are equal......You take the position. Just like the rest of the world does.

 

If the science teacher is offered a $300K position working for NASA and its June is he or she walking out on the kids???  



#17 Wrigley

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:11 PM

Toal retired from Bosco today....33 years. Must be in the air

#18 btango

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:03 AM

Toal retired from Bosco today....33 years. Must be in the air


Wow!!! That is beyond huge!

#19 Slashman

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:53 AM

I have the unique position of being a player who was inolved in a dramatic and ugly coaching change and I got to see both sides of the spectrum.

The HC who coached when I played JV ball and was beloved by all the players more or less got forced out due to a toxic program. The 2000's as a whole wasn't very good for my school's program and this was the final problem of it. My freshman class was the most athletic the school had that entire decade and everyone knew we would break the nadir of it yet they couldn't figure out how to get there and they forced the HC out because he wanted to stay a run team despite having a slinger of a QB. It was beyond ugly. I've seen a lot of dramas and saga's in my life but that was awful. He resigned in late March and my 2nd HC was hired in mid May. We didn't have spring practice then so it wasn't so bad but if we did now it would have been a nightmare.

That season ended up being a nightmare because my 2nd coach came in with only 2 months and tried to change everything from the offense to how we did pre game warmups and no one liked it. I understand why now because we really needed to change some things but in hindsight he did it the wrong way. But as a result it made him a better coach for it. The next year he got lax and focused on exploting the run because we had a RB who made all state and it worked. We went from 1-10 to 8-4. To been in such dire straights to prosperity is a unqiue feeling and its wonderful. Time and patience are key though.

#20 Slashman

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:31 AM

I interpret these changes in two ways: when it happens and reasons behind it. The ideal time for me to leave is pre April and the right time to hire is Feb/March. Anything later is rough and it cuts your time down. I've even seen a coach hired two weeks or so before practice started (Jonathan Frasher at South Stokes.)

If a coach leaves for a good reason (better opportunity/chance to return home,) then I'm all for that. But if a coach does it to spite a program then that's crappy in my book. We had a coach do that once in the mid 90's he quit with less than 10 days to go before practice started and left for the mountains while the school had to find a coach. Luckily we had the guy who wanted the job at the front door ready to come on but if we hadn't had him there it would have been a nightmare. If you do something like that it makes you look bad.

Anyways Frasher's probably the 1 sucess story I've seen come out of a late hire. Took over a program that hadn't won anything the year before and got 4-5 wins on both teams and change the program's direction for those next few years. I hadn't seen anything like it before or since and it was really unique. It's even more crazy considering he was hired in mid July after Stokes Co forced the guy before him out at the last moment.

I've also seen things go bad for a program before as well. I'll never forget the attempted coup at Atkins in 2014 when the principal tried to force their HC out very late at the start of the year over an odd set of reasons and what a nightmare that created for that school. That is a definate example of how not to handle a coaching situation.

#21 GDG

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:49 AM

A coach needs at least 3 months to recruit the halls of a school before school is out. That is a bare minimum. Much longer in a system like Forsyth County with no middle school football.

#22 Red1Rooster

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:10 AM

With all of that being said above, there are a lot of blanks on the "coaching moving van" still.  Does that show a lack of importance placed on the football program, or is it just that hard to find the right candidate for the position?



#23 Mustang sally

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

Teaching slots (PE) could be the reason for the slow hire.  If you are a football coach that teaches Math, Social Studies, EC, Science, you have a great shot at getting hired early.  If you teach PE that could cause a delay in hiring 






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